Kraton First issues

[Mopsik_Klopsik]

First serious bash today. I bent the shock shaft and 2 of the shock caps are leaking oil. Also the ESC hit thermal cut off too many times in my opinion. I'm thinking now, maybe the gear mesh is too tight. Can you please tell me if the gear mesh is set up correctly. vid:

 

[parcou]

First serious bash today. I bent the shock shaft and 2 of the shock caps are leaking oil. Also the ESC hit thermal cut off too many times in my opinion. I'm thinking now, maybe the gear mesh is too tight. Can you please tell me if the gear mesh is set up correctly. vid:

View attachment 357119

View attachment 357120

View attachment 357121

From what I can hear, you have good mesh and rocking and space between the gears for mesh.

That motor and ESC will make some heat. I'm not sure how you are bashing grass—more traction and more heat, etc. This motor needs a fan, in my opinion. The ESC fan is supposed to be good per HW. I still go after the market.

What MAH were the batteries, and how hard were you on the throttle in the area you were bashing?

My Kraton with the same electronics...but with fans

 

[DLK83]

That's a weird bend on that shock shaft, do you have those shocks set correctly? Looks like hydrolock could have caused that, do you have them setup as bladder or emulsion?

 

[Mopsik_Klopsik]

From what I can hear, you have good mesh and rocking and space between the gears for mesh.

That motor and ESC will make some heat. I'm not sure how you are bashing grass—more traction and more heat, etc. This motor needs a fan, in my opinion. The ESC fan is supposed to be good per HW. I still go after the market.

What MAH were the batteries, and how hard were you on the throttle in the area you were bashing?

My Kraton with the same electronics...but with fans
View attachment 357124

I was driving on packed moist sand, concrete covered with sand and some gravel. Lots of powersliding/drifting and hard throttle pulls. 6000mAh 65C lipo. I have ordered alza racing 40mm fan mounts for esc and motor. What fans are these that you are using?

That's a weird bend on that shock shaft, do you have those shocks set correctly? Looks like hydrolock could have caused that, do you have them setup as bladder or emulsion?

Emulsion

 

[parcou]

What fans are these that you are using?

I buy RCP fans

https://www.radiocontrolpower.com/p...l-40mm-high-speed-rc-fan-8-volt-plug-and-play

 

[Dan B.]

I was driving on packed moist sand, concrete covered with sand and some gravel. Lots of powersliding/drifting and hard throttle pulls. 6000mAh 65C lipo. I have ordered alza racing 40mm fan mounts for esc and motor. What fans are these that you are using?


Emulsion

I run the same HW setup and yes, the motor needs fans. I was able to go from a 16t to a 19t pinion and still keep the motor within temp limits when running on medium grass.
I do not understand the attraction with emulsion shock setups. I think they exist in the RC community because someone once said, “wow, we can convert these shocks to an emulsion setup with a $0.48 o-ring and a cap with a bleeder on it and make some money!”
I used to make my living setting up suspensions on 1:1’s, and the first thing any serious track driver did was to sh’tcan their emulsion Koni’s and move to proper pressurized dampers. The shocks on the 6s Arrma rigs are actually quite good when properly set up. Many will disagree, but you’re totally going backwards when you convert them to emulsion setups. They foam up when they get hot, they cavitate, and they bend shock shafts when they’re cold. I welcome all dissenting opinions…

 

[DLK83]

I run the same HW setup and yes, the motor needs fans. I was able to go from a 16t to a 19t pinion and still keep the motor within temp limits when running on medium grass.
I do not understand the attraction with emulsion shock setups. I think they exist in the RC community because someone once said, “wow, we can convert these shocks to an emulsion setup with a $0.48 o-ring and a cap with a bleeder on it and make some money!”
I used to make my living setting up suspensions on 1:1’s, and the first thing any serious track driver did was to sh’tcan their emulsion Koni’s and move to proper pressurized dampers. The shocks on the 6s Arrma rigs are actually quite good when properly set up. Many will disagree, but you’re totally going backwards when you convert them to emulsion setups. They foam up when they get hot, they cavitate, and they bend shock shafts when they’re cold. I welcome all dissenting opinions…

I've spent alot of time racing off road carpet trucks(10th scale stadium), and I can say with certainty that an emulsion style shock is more predictable and dependable than a bladder style, in that environment.... With that being said, I will also say that both of those benefits go out the window after more than 5-7 minutes of hard run time, as they do become aerated and can overheat as you mentioned... before kids, I was lucky enough to run an 80s style stepside Chevy on 5 tons and was running 20" travel Knightstalker nitrogen shocks(same as real monster trucks except they run 2 per corner), I wish we could run properly valved, miniature nitrogen shocks with remote reservoirs on these little rigs as that's exactly what they need, but I don't see an affordable version of something like that coming out anytime soon... I've blown 3 bladders on 2 different rc's over the last handful of years bashing, so I have a little bit of hatred for bladder shocks, but I also know the down sides of emulsions, so it's a double edged sword when it comes to bashing, at least for me. Everything is always a compromise when it comes to motorsports of any kind, just have to find what works best for your particular situation I suppose

 

[parcou]

Those two posts are great. It makes me so happy I am doing well on the stock 6S shocks, but I don't send it anyway. Good post, Gents!

 

[Dan B.]

I wish we could run properly valved, miniature nitrogen shocks with remote reservoirs on these little rigs as that's exactly what they need, but I don't see an affordable version of something like that coming out anytime soon

That is what I dream of!!! But you’re right, the cost would be insane. But wouldn’t it be awesome if we could call Bilstein Motorsports in CA and say, “yo, I want to order a set of high pressure, mono-tube MSP’s with fully threaded bodies, here’s the compression and rebound valving I want…”
And then I’d be on the phone with HyperCoils in the U.K. for the springs. And yes, I’m going linear rate!!
I think those options probably exist in RC Heaven. With free expedited shipping.

 

[DLK83]

That is what I dream of!!! But you’re right, the cost would be insane. But wouldn’t it be awesome if we could call Bilstein Motorsports in CA and say, “yo, I want to order a set of high pressure, mono-tube MSP’s with fully threaded bodies, here’s the compression and rebound valving I want…”
And then I’d be on the phone with HyperCoils in the U.K. for the springs. And yes, I’m going linear rate!!
I think those options probably exist in RC Heaven. With free expedited shipping.

So these were what I was running Dan... there is no spring, the main body is filled with your preferred brand and weight shock oil, and at the top of the shock shaft is a stack of washers/valves that determine your compression/rebound characteristics. The resevoir is nitrogen charged and the nitrogen is what supports the weight of the vehicle. For reference, I was running 550/450 frt/back psi of nitrogen. A true nitrogen shock has no spring, therefore, no unwanted rebound effect, it's all handled through shock oil weight and valving. I had about 5k wrapped up in those, and countless hours of trial and error, but once they were set, the truck was awesome! I wish I could figure out how to share a YouTube video on here, I'd love you to see a video of it in action and see how the suspension works! If you go to YouTube, type in "Red Chevy Stepside Perkins mudbog", the video is by an uploaded named Buddy713

Ha! There ya go!! I'm getting better at this technology stuff

 

[RCbuzz]

Your mesh sounds pretty good here, what gearing are you running?

I would definitely upgrade the fan in the Max6 and add one to the motor while you are at it.

If you are feeling brave I just remixed a design for the Max6 to fit a 40mm fan. (https://www.arrmaforum.com/threads/did-a-thing-the-holy-grail-of-esc-covers.69288/)

Are those M2C shock caps? I have a set as well and cannot get them to stop leaking, I think the included O-rings are too small, if you pull the cap off does yours also have a lot of side to side play with the o-ring? I have some larger O-rings on order but they are delayed.

The 6S shocks are really quite good, sorry to see you bent one, could have just been some bad luck. the perfect angle and force to take one out.

 

[Mopsik_Klopsik]

Your mesh sounds pretty good here, what gearing are you running?

I would definitely upgrade the fan in the Max6 and add one to the motor while you are at it.

If you are feeling brave I just remixed a design for the Max6 to fit a 40mm fan. (https://www.arrmaforum.com/threads/did-a-thing-the-holy-grail-of-esc-covers.69288/)

Are those M2C shock caps? I have a set as well and cannot get them to stop leaking, I think the included O-rings are too small, if you pull the cap off does yours also have a lot of side to side play with the o-ring? I have some larger O-rings on order but they are delayed.

The 6S shocks are really quite good, sorry to see you bent one, could have just been some bad luck. the perfect angle and force to take one out.

20/50 gearing. I have a rocket 35mm aluminium fan currently sitting in my max6. Now I'm in the process of switching to 40mm ESC fan and adding one to the motor ( I already ordered fan mounts ) after I ecountered this overheating issue. I'm having trouble picking the right fans tho, I was thinking about these: https://pl.aliexpress.com/item/1005....0.0.74e6VKMsVKMsI2&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=glo2pol
Can I plug them directly into the receiver or do I need to get 3s lipo to power them? And which version should I pick 5v or 12v? As for the shockcaps... No side to side play. I think I may have damaged the o-rings by overtightening the shockcaps during a first assembly. I'm going to replace them, hopefully they will have this size o-rings in a local shop. I also had troubles with a bleeder screws leaking, applied some tefon tape, no issues so far. Sorry, it takes me ages to write anything in english

 

[RCbuzz]

20/50 gearing. I have a rocket 35mm aluminium fan currently sitting in my max6. Now I'm in the process of switching to 40mm ESC fan and adding one to the motor ( I already ordered fan mounts ) after I ecountered this overheating issue. I'm having trouble picking the right fans tho, I was thinking about these: https://pl.aliexpress.com/item/1005....0.0.74e6VKMsVKMsI2&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=glo2pol
Can I plug them directly into the receiver or do I need to get 3s lipo to power them. And which version should I pick 5v or 12v? As for the shockcaps... No side to side play. I think I may have damaged the o-rings by tightening the shockcaps too much during a first assembly. I'm going to replace them, hopefully they will have this size o-rings in a local shop. I also had troubles with a bleeder screws leaking, applied some tefon tape, no issues so far. Sorry, it takes me ages to write anything in english

View attachment 357228

Your English is very good!

I have the same frustration with the small bleeder screws, they should have included Delrin washers like HR does. My leaking does appear to be coming from the O-ring area, will get a photo later. Difficult to measure the O-ring but they seem too small to me and the cap lip edge are very narrow.

I did not realize you already have a rocket fan in your ESC, you could try to drop down to a 18-19T pinion to reduce heat loads. Is it very hot where you are? You could try to modify the body as well to allow more cool air inside.

Your Max6 internal BEC is 6amps continuous, if you feel you are drawing more than 6 amps with your servo/fans/accessories, I would consider an external BEC. Stock servo and a couple rocket fans you will probably be fine.

The link did not work for Ali, if you are looking at server fans I have a couple 12V fans that I run at the lower BEC voltage of 7.4Volts and they push a lot of air.
I measured amperage here: (https://www.arrmaforum.com/threads/...se-for-fans-and-accessories.56320/post-820901) for the specific model I had.

 

[Mopsik_Klopsik]

Your English is very good!

I have the same frustration with the small bleeder screws, they should have included Delrin washers like HR does. My leaking does appear to be coming from the O-ring area, will get a photo later. Difficult to measure the O-ring but they seem too small to me and the cap lip edge are very narrow.

I picked up the o-rings today, they appear to have better snug fit. They are 2,5mm thick whilst the m2c ones are 2mm.

I did not realize you already have a rocket fan in your ESC, you could try to drop down to a 18-19T pinion to reduce heat loads. Is it very hot where you are? You could try to modify the body as well to allow more cool air inside.

Your Max6 internal BEC is 6amps continuous, if you feel you are drawing more than 6 amps with your servo/fans/accessories, I would consider an external BEC. Stock servo and a couple rocket fans you will probably be fine.

The link did not work for Ali, if you are looking at server fans I have a couple 12V fans that I run at the lower BEC voltage of 7.4Volts and they push a lot of air.
I measured amperage here: (https://www.arrmaforum.com/threads/...se-for-fans-and-accessories.56320/post-820901) for the specific model I had.

Is there a big difference in rpm's running them on 7,4V instead of 12V? It seems that a 40mm server fans have a 4mm mounting holes, do I need some type of grommets to mount them? ( Fan mounts have a 3mm mounting holes )

 

[Mopsik_Klopsik]

I picked up the o-rings today, they appear to have better snug fit. They are 2,5mm thick whilst the m2c ones are 2mm.

Well... nevermind, they are still leaking even more now with the new o-rings. I'm unable to tighten down the shock cap enough, because the o-ring falls out of its place, straight into the oil. I guess you must use a flat type of o-ring, you can't replace it with the round one. Given the comments above I changed my shock caps back to a stock, bladder type caps. I'm sick of the m2c ones ( a.k.a the biggest piece of dog sh.. ).

 

[DLK83]

Sorry, I just checked this thread, or I would have told you that wasn't going to work, you need a square cut o-ring like you found out... fwiw, I have the M2C caps on 3 different 6s rigs and haven't had any problems over the course of about 3 years

 

[RCbuzz]

Well... nevermind, they are still leaking even more now with the new o-rings. I'm unable to tighten down the shock cap enough, because the o-ring falls out of its place, straight into the oil. I guess you must use a flat type of o-ring, you can't replace it with the round one. Given the comments above I changed my shock caps back to a stock, bladder type caps. I'm sick of the m2c ones ( a.k.a the biggest piece of dog sh.. ).

my o-rings have not come yet but they are the same style. Looks like I will be disappointed as well.

 

[DLK83]

M2C has a replacement 4pk of orings for $3.44 just so you guys know

 

[Mopsik_Klopsik]

I think I may have damaged the o-rings by overtightening the shockcaps during a first assembly.

As I said before, i may have damaged them. Maybe I will try to rebuild the shocks with m2c caps in the near future, using a fresh o-rings. M2c parts aren't available in my country so 10$+ shipping. I'm sticking with the stockers for now.

 

[RCbuzz]

I am dealing with new caps but they keep leaking, silicone oil everywhere.. I will try to report back when the larger and thicker O-rings show up (they are round so I may be out of luck here).

I am thinking the included O-rings are too small and the design of the cap does not have a very wide "ledge" inside the cap for the O-ring to rest on. I am also surprised the bleeder screws have no Delrin washers.