Kraton Kraton for my Son

robl45

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I'm thinking of getting the Kraton for my son, possibly for me and him. Currently he has a mini summit and I have a frankensteined Losi LST2 converted to brushless.

I was planning to get the new Losi electric Monster as mine has been pretty much bulletproof, but they are pricey and I've been watching these for a bit. Will it stand up to a 7 year old? He's been driving his mini summit since 3 and a half but seems to be getting worse as he gets older LOL.

I just don't want to be fixing the things every few minutes. He wants to do jumps but can't really figure out how to let go of the throttle before landing. Is he just going to strip gears every run? Does the current version work pretty well out of the box or am I going to be upgrading everything?

Thanks
 

OrangeDRAGON

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Stick to 4s and it will really help IMO. Shim the diffs, at minimum the outside shims and it should help them last longer. I haven't busted anything 'yet' - but I see others post those pivot balls ripping out now and then, so if he can't land well maybe work on a double ramp with one setup for him to aim landing on and as he gets better and more consistent he can jump off just one and land on ground...

The closest vehicle I've had to my 6S Typhon was the Revo, and it had already broken parts by now compared to my Arrma, not that the REVO was bad (IMO it wasn't at all) just the ARRMAs have stood up to more for me...
 

robl45

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We would run 6a in them. Is there a slipper I could set so he won't rip the diffs and other gears to shreds?
 

OrangeDRAGON

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We would run 6a in them. Is there a slipper I could set so he won't rip the diffs and other gears to shreds?

No slipper system as far as I know... 6S really rips, which means hard crashes, and significantly increased chance of broken parts... TBH I'd be less worried of broken diffs, and more worried about flips/cartwheels at high speed, or bad impacts... not to mention a 15+lbs 1/8th truck hitting your foot at 35-45+mph will break bones easily, unlike a 1/16 or 1/10th at same speed merely hurts like hell
 

robl45

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There is no slipper to help with wheelies or anything like that? It would be 6S as that is what I drive so the batteries could be swapped between the two of them. It may be a few months until he gets it or the end of the year, he has to prove to me that he can drive responsibly. I've explained to him about the damage the bigger trucks can cause. I accidently hit him at slower speed with my truck yesterday, he got the hint real fast that it hurts.

No slipper system as far as I know... 6S really rips, which means hard crashes, and significantly increased chance of broken parts... TBH I'd be less worried of broken diffs, and more worried about flips/cartwheels at high speed, or bad impacts... not to mention a 15+lbs 1/8th truck hitting your foot at 35-45+mph will break bones easily, unlike a 1/16 or 1/10th at same speed merely hurts like hell

also, I read a review somewhere that said the rear gearbox or something snaps real easily, where the wing mounts I think it is?
 

Swerny

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There is no slipper to help with wheelies or anything like that? It would be 6S as that is what I drive so the batteries could be swapped between the two of them. It may be a few months until he gets it or the end of the year, he has to prove to me that he can drive responsibly. I've explained to him about the damage the bigger trucks can cause. I accidently hit him at slower speed with my truck yesterday, he got the hint real fast that it hurts.



also, I read a review somewhere that said the rear gearbox or something snaps real easily, where the wing mounts I think it is?


there is no slipper since it has a centre differential. It actually has 3 differentials.

the rear wing mount breaks. RPM makes an upgraded one.

The steering servo is also a problem spot.

6s in a Kraton for a 7 year old is too much in my opinion. It's plenty of fun on 4s.
 
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OrangeDRAGON

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It is a hardcore rig, ment for maximum power to the wheels, so direct drive. The ESC has a programmable punch control that ramps up hard throttles, that helps avoid any damage to the drive train from fast starts, wheels. The drivetrain from the motor pinion to the drive shafts is all steel except for the differential cups themselves, all the gears, dogbones, drive cups are steel. If the gears are all meshed well (hence the popularity for shimming the diffs into the pinions nice and snug) they will probably last longer than many other parts.

Yes, the differential housings have broken, but it seems rare. Since the F&R share the differential and housing parts you can keep one spare on hand.

I have run both 6S (3S+3S) and 4S and while the power is awesome, I end up spending less time at full speed then I thought, so I do 95% of my bashing on 4S.

I would get the Tekno outer diff shims and put 2, maybe 3 if not too tight in there to start. Also consider, swap springs to Tekno orange-rate 80/90mm and shock oil to 70/55wt F/R - swap center diff oil to 500K will help keep power going to rear wheels. Should be a good setup for bashing, but a high speed hit to a curb or sending it cartwheeling even in a field could be bad depending on speed.

I think the others who have a Kraton can chime in more on the parts most at risk to be damaged...
 

nwdm1537

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The updated Kraton has a new wing mount.. I've only had mine a few weeks, but have had some pretty big crashes in that time. Cartwheeling, 10-15 foot falls landing on its backside/rear end.. mount is still holding up. I almost ordered the RPM mount when I ordered the Kraton but decided to wait... glad I did.
 

justpassedu

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There is no slipper to help with wheelies or anything like that? It would be 6S as that is what I drive so the batteries could be swapped between the two of them. It may be a few months until he gets it or the end of the year, he has to prove to me that he can drive responsibly. I've explained to him about the damage the bigger trucks can cause. I accidently hit him at slower speed with my truck yesterday, he got the hint real fast that it hurts.



also, I read a review somewhere that said the rear gearbox or something snaps real easily, where the wing mounts I think it is?
I heard the new models shouldn't have the wing mounts breaking , I believe they have been revised , well they def have on the Kraton so I am pretty sure all the other similar models followed . Also 6s will def be a handful for your kid , even toned down. I highly recommend starting him on 4s , most of us that have been running for years even have a hard time handling all the power 6s brings.
 

OrangeDRAGON

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I've not seen any specs for amperage of the BLX185 motor (the black motor) in the Kraton (since the amp draw is heavily affected by the load), based on specs on similar motors in similarly weighted rigs I'd make a rough (very) estimate of:
4S - 60A Continuous, 120A burst
6S - 80A Continuous, 160A burst

The ESC cannot handle 5S, it treats them as a 6S with low voltage so the LVC will cut off earlier on you. The only approved configurations are 4S (or 2S+2S) or 6S (or 3S+3S). I've also been able to run 2S on it, but didn't test that the LVC worked properly by running the 2S pack low...


Edit: had figures wrong, was showing 3S and 4S, now 4S and 6S
 

robl45

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Maybe you have those reversed? My understandng is 6S will use less amps than 4S because of higher voltage.
 

OrangeDRAGON

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No, a higher voltage setup allows the motor to spin faster (higher rpm) and create more torque. Torque (and power output) is directly related to wattage, higher wattage = higher amperage.

Looking at it a simpler way, using Ohm's law, if your motor can draw 60A under load on 4S (14.8v) the load has an effective resistance of 0.24 Ohms. If you increase voltage to 6S (22.1v) on the same load resistance of 0.24 Ohms you will draw 90A. (Just as a light bulb powered by 24V will draw more amps then the same bulb on 12V)

You can also simulate current draws on configurations using propCalc - http://www.ecalc.ch/motorcalc.php
 

robl45

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Some places say it uses more amps, some say less. I don't really understand that calculator, but I have been looking for something like that to tell amp draw. I know my converted LST2 uses a 1600KV motor and I run it with 6s 3000mah 20C packs and there is no problem.

No, a higher voltage setup allows the motor to spin faster (higher rpm) and create more torque. Torque (and power output) is directly related to wattage, higher wattage = higher amperage.

Looking at it a simpler way, using Ohm's law, if your motor can draw 60A under load on 4S (14.8v) the load has an effective resistance of 0.24 Ohms. If you increase voltage to 6S (22.1v) on the same load resistance of 0.24 Ohms you will draw 90A. (Just as a light bulb powered by 24V will draw more amps then the same bulb on 12V)

You can also simulate current draws on configurations using propCalc - http://www.ecalc.ch/motorcalc.php
 

OrangeDRAGON

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In general, lower Kv rated motor the lower amps it will draw. Your 1600Kv motor in the same truck will draw less amps in general then running a 2050Kv etc.

I wouldn't use anything less than 35C packs, personally - and I believe the manual says 35C+ as well. Although it seems like many people use 20C without problem...
 

robl45

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It appears 5s probably be perfect for this and hobbyking has 50 dollar batteries
 

OrangeDRAGON

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And I think the confusion on higher volts increasing or decreasing amps has more to do with motor change. If you go from a 2S 2000Kv setup to a 4S 1000Kv setup you will use less amps for the same power output.

But if your just changing voltage on the same motor generally your changing the power output (torque and rpms) and it will draw MORE amps. Again, it's not a rule just in general for R/C trucks.

It appears 5s probably be perfect for this and hobbyking has 50 dollar batteries

Has anyone else run 5S successfully and can advise @robl45 ? From what I've seen 5S doesn't work with BLX195 ESC as it sees it as 6S and LVC goes into effect and shuts down quickly while you still have charge in the battery...
 

Swerny

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I've not seen any specs for amperage of the BLX185 motor (the black motor) in the Kraton (since the amp draw is heavily affected by the load), based on specs on similar motors in similarly weighted rigs I'd make a rough (very) estimate of:
4S - 60A Continuous, 120A burst
6S - 80A Continuous, 160A burst

The ESC cannot handle 5S, it treats them as a 6S with low voltage so the LVC will cut off earlier on you. The only approved configurations are 4S (or 2S+2S) or 6S (or 3S+3S). I've also been able to run 2S on it, but didn't test that the LVC worked properly by running the 2S pack low...


Edit: had figures wrong, was showing 3S and 4S, now 4S and 6S

That's concerning to me since i run 5S on my BLX180 ESC

And I think the confusion on higher volts increasing or decreasing amps has more to do with motor change. If you go from a 2S 2000Kv setup to a 4S 1000Kv setup you will use less amps for the same power output.

But if your just changing voltage on the same motor generally your changing the power output (torque and rpms) and it will draw MORE amps. Again, it's not a rule just in general for R/C trucks.

Has anyone else run 5S successfully and can advise @robl45 ? From what I've seen 5S doesn't work with BLX195 ESC as it sees it as 6S and LVC goes into effect and shuts down quickly while you still have charge in the battery...

I have, but on the BLX180
 

robl45

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I could have sworn I read somewhere that people were using this on 5S. From the manual, it is supposed to do 3.2volt per cell cutoff and the manual seems to say from 4 to 6s so that would include 5S. Hopefully some other people can weigh in on this.
 
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