Limitless Radio for SpeedRuns? (and Noble NB4 discussions)

[LibertyMKiii]

Radio equipment often is a topic of discussion when doing speed runs. It is quite easy to eat up 1000' of road doing 100 mph and this distance required grows significantly as you go faster. Pretty quickly you will find that a RTR radio wont safely maintain radio connection to the car.

Radios are an interesting subject as everyone has their preference, especially in the racing scene. Some features are very worth having for speed run use. I came up with this list of features that pertain to speed use. They are listed in order of what I feel is most critical:

1. Range/Latency
2. Steering expo settings (low steering during minimal steering inputs) (you shouldn't be steering sharp during 100+ speeds)
3. Throttle Expo (although I think the ESC does a better job on this one)
4. Throttle control?
5. Gyro

Diving into some of these topics
#1. Range
We are seeing that using the dual antenna RX originally used to airplanes/drones provide significantly better range. I personally tested the RadioLink RCG4s v2 with the dual antenna RX beyond 1500' one direction (meaning this radio could do over 3000' range if you stand in the middle of the run)
People are doing the same with Futaba radios, and possibly this could help the Spektrum radio range?
Boosters are an option. The extra battery to power them, modified wiring, heat generated in the amplifier is all extra issues to deal with (that may not be necessary depending how fast you want to go). A signal booster can make almost any radio a great long range radio. I believe the boosted signal also reduces latency at longer distances.

#2 and #3 are personal preference so I am mostly skipping these. I will comment that the steering expo has a very different feel between Futaba and the RadioLink systems.

#4 Throttle control
This is a touchy subject as many purists feel you are cheating. I believe you should learn to drive the car to 120 on your own to understand the why and how behind this electronic aids as they relate to grip. My thoughts on this is that if you are really pushing for big numbers 150+ crashes happen SOOOOOO often, it would be nice to avoid one of the ten possible things that wants to destroy your car. Having some consistent throttle inputs allows you to more accurately test changes to the car and ultimately try to hit record numbers.

#5 Gyro
Gyro is another touchy subject, like #4 purists do not like the idea of stability control helping.
From what I hear the primary benefit is during braking at the end of the run when you cannot see the car well and radio latency is high. Again if it can save you from a $1000+ crash then why not? After all Nic Case used one in his 202 mph RC Bullet.


Radio list that I used and range noted beside: (***updated 12/27/2023***)
Edit added 12/27/23 RadioMaster has released eLRS protocol gound radios that are supposed to have insane range without a signal booster.

Brand	Model	Rx type	Range
Traxxas with antenna		RTR	700
Traxxas without antenna		RTR	700
Futaba	3PV	FHSS	700-1100
Futaba	3PM-MX	FASST	1200+
RadioLink	RC6GS V2	Dual antenna 7 ch	1600+
Noble NB4	FGr4s	Internal antenna AFHDS	450
Noble NB4	FGr4 v2	Single antenna AFHDS	800 +/-
Noble NB4	FGr4 V2 (with 2nd antenna added)	Second antenna added and longer, both setup above body	1700+
Radio Master	MT12		3000+???

I am currently interested in the Noble or FlySky NB4. This integrated throttle control feature looks nice, as well as the display. Curious about what dual antenna RX might work with it?

 

[K-BASH]

Awesome info.something ive been needing to research an your info has saved me alot of questions.im gonna push hard this year on speedruns so I've learned ,research, research, research.1 question thou.with gyro on ,my truck gets speed-wobbles bad when I let off throttle even with sensitivity turned down so I haven't been able to use it,.what causes that an is there a way to use without getting the extreme wobbling. THE RUSH FROM SPEEDRUNNING IS SO ADDICTING.CANT WAIT FOR HORRIBLE WHEATHER TO BREAK.

 

[LibertyMKiii]

Awesome info.something ive been needing to research an your info has saved me alot of questions.im gonna push hard this year on speedruns so I've learned ,research, research, research.1 question thou.with gyro on ,my truck gets speed-wobbles bad when I let off throttle even with sensitivity turned down so I haven't been able to use it,.what causes that an is there a way to use without getting the extreme wobbling. THE RUSH FROM SPEEDRUNNING IS SO ADDICTING.CANT WAIT FOR HORRIBLE WHEATHER TO BREAK.

I honestly have never used Gyro on speed runs, so I am not the best to answer that.
I can tell you many of the top guys like Raz and Nic Case used Futaba Gyros (quite pricey) separate from the receiver.

 

[bkhlouf]

Radio equipment often is a topic of discussion when doing speed runs. It is quite easy to eat up 1000' of road doing 100 mph and this distance required grows significantly as you go faster. Pretty quickly you will find that a RTR radio wont safely maintain radio connection to the car.

Radios are an interesting subject as everyone has their preference, especially in the racing scene. Some features are very worth having for speed run use. I came up with this list of features that pertain to speed use. They are listed in order of what I feel is most critical:

1. Range/Latency
2. Steering expo settings (low steering during minimal steering inputs) (you shouldn't be steering sharp during 100+ speeds)
3. Throttle Expo (although I think the ESC does a better job on this one)
4. Throttle control?
5. Gyro

Diving into some of these topics
#4. Range
We are seeing that using the dual antenna RX originally used to airplanes/drones provide significantly better range. I personally tested the RadioLink RCG4s v2 with the dual antenna RX beyond 1500' one direction (meaning this radio could do over 3000' range if you stand in the middle of the run)
People are doing the same with Futaba radios, and possibly this could help the Spektrum radio range?
Boosters are an option although I personally feel they should be avoided when possible. The extra battery to power them, modified wiring, heat generated in the amplifier is all extra issues to deal with (that may not be necessary).

#2 and #3 are personal preference so I am mostly skipping these. I will comment that the steering expo has a very different feel between Futaba and the RadioLink systems.

#4 Throttle control
This is a touch subject as many purists feel you are cheating. I believe you should learn to drive the car to 120 on your own to understand they way and how related to grip. My thoughts on this is that if you are really pushing for big numbers 150+ crashes happen SOOOOOO often, it would be nice to avoid one of the ten possible things that wants to destroy your car. Having some consistent throttle inputs allows you to more accurately test changes to the car and ultimately try to hit record numbers.

#5 Gyro
Gyro is another touchy subject, like #4 purists do not like the idea of stability control helping.
From what I hear the primary benefit is during braking at the end of the run when you cannot see the car well and radio latency is high. Again if it can save you from a $1000+ crash then why not? After all Nic Case used one in his 202 mph RC Bullet.


Radio list that I used and range noted beside:

Brand	Model	Rx type	Range
Traxxas with antenna		RTR	700
Traxxas without antenna		RTR	700
Futaba	3PV	FHSS	700-1100
Futaba	3PM-MX	FASST	1200+
RadioLink	RC6GS V2	Dual antenna 7 ch	3000+

I am currently interested in the Noble or FlySky NB4. This integrated throttle control feature looks nice, as well as the display. Curious about what dual antenna RX might work with it?

Any advise on how to setup Steering expo?

 

[LibertyMKiii]

Any advise on how to setup Steering expo?

Expo is very different per radio and also to the driver's preferred feel for the car. What I like mine set at may not match how you like yours.
I have mine setup negative like the red line drawn on this image. This makes it where I get very little steering until I reach 50% steering and then it ramps up. This allows me to make small corrections without over steering, but should the car go into a slide I can then input full steering lock when needed.

I can check what my actual setting is on the radio when I get home from work.

 

[bkhlouf]

Expo is very different per radio and also to the driver's preferred feel for the car. What I like mine set at may not match how you like yours.
I have mine setup negative like the red line drawn on this image. This makes it where I get very little steering until I reach 50% steering and then it ramps up. This allows me to make small corrections without over steering, but should the car go into a slide I can then input full steering lock when needed.

I can check what my actual setting is on the radio when I get home from work.

View attachment 125394

Yes, please share with me the actual setting as I do have the same radio radiolink

 

[LibertyMKiii]

Yes, please share with me the actual setting as I do have the same radio radiolink

End points

Expo

 

[bkhlouf]

End points
View attachment 125494

Expo
View attachment 125495

Thank you so much for sharing!

 

[LibertyMKiii]

Thank you so much for sharing!

Happy to help where I can.

To follow up to my original post I hear the FTr10 receiver will pair up with the FlySky Noble NB4.
I would like to try it out, but gotta scrape together some funds. If you believe the specs they claim up to 3400m or over 10,000 feet range.
(edit 7/30/2021 the range improvement is within 100-400 ft on surface applications based on testing)

 

[Mr.Duke]

Love my Futaba

They’re getting harder and harder to find in mint condition but if you run across one snatch it up.

 

[rotauq]

I have the noble NB4 for 4 months now. Build quality is awesome. Using the dual antenna FTr8B. Range i've been getting is 300m (950ft), slightly more than my old IT4S. The FTr10 is supposed to be a little better in range. I am running the 2-way protocol though. That probably cuts back in range too. Since my little speedrun road is only 600m i have not made any effort to improve the range further.

Once you experience the low latency and accuracy that comes with the AFHD3 protocol, you will certainly put the steering expo requirement much lower on your list. It's just ridiculous how much better i feel in control versus my old radiolink rc4gs v1 or flysky IT4S (which used to be my favorite)

 

[Notoriousone]

End points
View attachment 125494

Expo
View attachment 125495

On my radios I only adjust steering via dual rate and St. speed, have never adjusted the steering expo but I want to try it starting with small adjustments. Do you adjust dual rate and St. speed as well as expo, or just the expo? For speedruns I usually set dual rate around 40%, and St. speed around 45%, works well for me

 

[3d-rc.myshopify.com]

Happy to help where I can.

To follow up to my original post I hear the FTr10 receiver will pair up with the FlySky Noble NB4.
I would like to try it out, but gotta scrape together some funds. If you believe the specs they claim up to 3400m or over 10,000 feet range.

View attachment 125581

That's the reciver I run on my fpv.. I don't know the actual distance but I will say I have pushed it as far as my radiolink.. its huge and will not fit in most radio box.

 

[LibertyMKiii]

I have the noble NB4 for 4 months now. Build quality is awesome. Using the dual antenna FTr8B. Range i've been getting is 300m (950ft), slightly more than my old IT4S. The FTr10 is supposed to be a little better in range. I am running the 2-way protocol though. That probably cuts back in range too. Since my little speedrun road is only 600m i have not made any effort to improve the range further.

Once you experience the low latency and accuracy that comes with the AFHD3 protocol, you will certainly put the steering expo requirement much lower on your list. It's just ridiculous how much better i feel in control versus my old radiolink rc4gs v1 or flysky IT4S (which used to be my favorite)

That is good feedback. The more I look into it I want to try the NB4.
Thanks!

On my radios I only adjust steering via dual rate and St. speed, have never adjusted the steering expo but I want to try it starting with small adjustments. Do you adjust dual rate and St. speed as well as expo, or just the expo? For speedruns I usually set dual rate around 40%, and St. speed around 45%, works well for me

With Futaba radios all I ever did was adjust the Dual Rate setting. This RadioLink is just overly sensitive and needed the expo adjusted to make it less sensitive. In essence what I have created by using the negative expo setting is a dual rate of only around 30% when steering inputs are 1% to 50%, but if I turn the wheel all the way I can still get my full travel if needed. This allows me to have less sensitive steering during the run, but easily flip a U-turn at the end of the run when I turn the wheel all the way.

That's the reciver I run on my fpv.. I don't know the actual distance but I will say I have pushed it as far as my radiolink.. its huge and will not fit in most radio box.

Good info. I noticed it is quite large but both of my setups have plenty of room for a large RX. I know radio signals behave differently for ground applications. I'd love to see a range test on the FTr10 in a RC car.

 

[3d-rc.myshopify.com]

That is good feedback. The more I look into it I want to try the NB4.
Thanks!



With Futaba radios all I ever did was adjust the Dual Rate setting. This RadioLink is just overly sensitive and needed the expo adjusted to make it less sensitive. In essence what I have created by using the negative expo setting is a dual rate of only around 30% when steering inputs are 1% to 50%, but if I turn the wheel all the way I can still get my full travel if needed. This allows me to have less sensitive steering during the run, but easily flip a U-turn at the end of the run when I turn the wheel all the way.



Good info. I noticed it is quite large but both of my setups have plenty of room for a large RX. I know radio signals behave differently for ground applications. I'd love to see a range test on the FTr10 in a RC car.

Not sure what kinda space you have but it is about the size of the standard 6s receiver box and the way the terminals plug in make it that much longer... its HUGE!!!!

 

[LibertyMKiii]

Not sure what kinda space you have but it is about the size of the standard 6s receiver box and the way the terminals plug in make it that much longer... its HUGE!!!!

It would probably go in my stretched 4tec or my next build. Both have lots of open space on the chassis.

 

[FatCatRC]

I just run the dumb rc 6 channel radio. 1000m plus range for 40 bucks.

 

[DADDYO1NC]

Radio equipment often is a topic of discussion when doing speed runs. It is quite easy to eat up 1000' of road doing 100 mph and this distance required grows significantly as you go faster. Pretty quickly you will find that a RTR radio wont safely maintain radio connection to the car.

Radios are an interesting subject as everyone has their preference, especially in the racing scene. Some features are very worth having for speed run use. I came up with this list of features that pertain to speed use. They are listed in order of what I feel is most critical:

1. Range/Latency
2. Steering expo settings (low steering during minimal steering inputs) (you shouldn't be steering sharp during 100+ speeds)
3. Throttle Expo (although I think the ESC does a better job on this one)
4. Throttle control?
5. Gyro

Diving into some of these topics
#1. Range
We are seeing that using the dual antenna RX originally used to airplanes/drones provide significantly better range. I personally tested the RadioLink RCG4s v2 with the dual antenna RX beyond 1500' one direction (meaning this radio could do over 3000' range if you stand in the middle of the run)
People are doing the same with Futaba radios, and possibly this could help the Spektrum radio range?
Boosters are an option although I personally feel they should be avoided when possible. The extra battery to power them, modified wiring, heat generated in the amplifier is all extra issues to deal with (that may not be necessary).

#2 and #3 are personal preference so I am mostly skipping these. I will comment that the steering expo has a very different feel between Futaba and the RadioLink systems.

#4 Throttle control
This is a touchy subject as many purists feel you are cheating. I believe you should learn to drive the car to 120 on your own to understand the why and how behind this electronic aids as they relate to grip. My thoughts on this is that if you are really pushing for big numbers 150+ crashes happen SOOOOOO often, it would be nice to avoid one of the ten possible things that wants to destroy your car. Having some consistent throttle inputs allows you to more accurately test changes to the car and ultimately try to hit record numbers.

#5 Gyro
Gyro is another touchy subject, like #4 purists do not like the idea of stability control helping.
From what I hear the primary benefit is during braking at the end of the run when you cannot see the car well and radio latency is high. Again if it can save you from a $1000+ crash then why not? After all Nic Case used one in his 202 mph RC Bullet.


Radio list that I used and range noted beside:

Brand	Model	Rx type	Range
Traxxas with antenna		RTR	700
Traxxas without antenna		RTR	700
Futaba	3PV	FHSS	700-1100
Futaba	3PM-MX	FASST	1200+
RadioLink	RC6GS V2	Dual antenna 7 ch	3000+

I am currently interested in the Noble or FlySky NB4. This integrated throttle control feature looks nice, as well as the display. Curious about what dual antenna RX might work with it?

i can't understand half of what you said. sorry.

 

[FatCatRC]

i can't understand half of what you said. sorry.

How can you not? It was quite informative.

 

[Edough13]

I run the DumboRC X6F as well, I'm thinking about upgrading though as sometimes the range isn't consistent. Now that I'm hitting speeds of almost 100mph and next run will be over the 100 mark I'd like to know I've got range consistently. What would be a good upgrade that isn't a ton more in cost over the Dumbo?