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Used Fury questions

Discussion in 'Fury & Mojave' started by biggman100, Mar 10, 2018.

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  1. biggman100

    biggman100 Well-Known Member

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    I bought a used Fury, in what appears to be very good shape. Never raced as far as i can tell, never really bashed on, and, actually looks like it was barely used at all. The guy i bought it from though did do some upgrades, including swapping the brushed setup for a Castle Sidewinder brushless ESC and motor, which, by itself, isnt a bad upgrade, but, seems to have made it almost undriveable. What i mean is, at almost any throttle position, all it does is spin the tires and do constant donuts. I could start out with it barely moving, let it get what seems to be up to a decent speed, hit the throttle, and it goes off and still does donuts. I actually started out and let it get about 15 feet, and gradually kept increasing the throttle, got it up to about half throttle, which, by the time i was at half throttle, it had went at least 100 feet from the point i started it at, slammed the throttle, and it immediately went into donuts and burnouts. I did change the spur gear from the 17 tooth to a 20 tooth, but, it really didnt seem to make much difference, except that now it does only 2 instead of three donuts before just taking off in random directions, so, my questions are:

    Would changing the rear tires from the stock 2.2/3.0 SC tires he put on to a larger 2.8 monster truck style tire tame it at all, or would that just cause it to hook harder and then just do constant wheelies?

    Would a bigger spur gear, say even a 26 or 28 tooth have that much impact? If so, would that be negated by excessive heat that may be generated?

    I don't know if maybe he only ran it on NIMH batteries, but, i have a Gens Ace 2S 7.4V 5000MAH 50C battery i run it on, and, i don't plan on racing it, just running it around where i live, with everything from asphalt to grass to dirt to gravel, so, anything i do to it doesn't have to be ROAR approved. I just want it to be more controllable without having to break the bank to do it.

    I also bought a Racers EDGE Pro 2 SC truck from him as well, and that does the exact same thing the Fury does, so, im looking to actually make the same recommended changes to both trucks to get them more controllable.
     
  2. Jerry-rigged

    Jerry-rigged Premium Member!
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    Check and see if the tires are out of balance. If they are, at speed they will hop and you lose control. If the tires are not vented properly, dirt and water will get into the tire, and can't get out, and you get bad wheel hop.
     
  3. Bri26

    Bri26 Well-Known Member

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    I recommend loosening the slipper clutch so it slips a little from a dead stop, adjust the ESC with a milder punch setting and getting better tires for the surface that you run on.

    Best regards,
    Brian
     
  4. biggman100

    biggman100 Well-Known Member

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    When i got both trucks from him, neither one came with a program card for the ESC's, so, i am waiting on them to get here on a leaky raft from china. Same with the tires (i ordered a set of standard short course, as well as a bit more aggressive off road tire for both trucks, to see which works best). As for adjusting the clutch, according to the book, at least for the Fury, you turn it all the way in, then out 5 turns, which i did, but, i think that was the setting for the stock brushed motor. When adjusting the clutch, is that something you just have to play with to get it right, or is there a recommended setting for it with a brushless motor?
     
  5. Jerry-rigged

    Jerry-rigged Premium Member!
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    Play with it.

    Best way is full battery, good tires, good traction, quiet area, do a full power launch. The slipper should slip for 2-3 feet, maybe 1 to 2 seconds, no more.
     
  6. biggman100

    biggman100 Well-Known Member

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    I turned the clutch out 2 full turns, and, even with it out that much, if i go full throttle from a dead stop, no matter what surface it is on, grass, gravel, asphalt, it just breaks the tires loose and with or without touching the steering, it will just do donuts repeatedly. The only way i have any semblance of control over it is if i constantly feather the throttle, which leads me to believe either the previous owner either didnt set the clutch properly at all, the gearing is way off, or he went way too big on the motor, or the 2.2/30 bfg's i put on it still arent enough to tame it any. I know it is geared 87/17, and i started out by adjusting the clutch according to the manual before making any other adjustments. Tires are new, that i got yesterday from a LHS. They are for the Traxxas Slash 2WD, but, seem to fit the Fury perfectly. I also went with an aggressive off road tread, since i mostly run in grass and dirt, and, now my yard has multiple streaks in it from where the tires literally tore the grass out.
     
  7. Bri26

    Bri26 Well-Known Member

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    I had a castle in my Fury and it was too much motor. I ended up switching to a 10.5T 540 2 pole motor from RC Juice and it runs way better. It also helps to put some heavier weight diff fluid like 10K in the rear diff. The heavier weight diff fluid will help keep the rear tires from diffing out when you turn.

    Best regards,
    Brian
     
  8. biggman100

    biggman100 Well-Known Member

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    Is there any real difference between a 2 pole and a 4 pole motor? The label on the castle in the Fury says it is a 4 pole 3800KV, max 100,000 RPM. The paperwork on the Racers Edge Pro 2 says that is a 3000KV, but doesn't specify if it is 2 or 4 pole, and, according to the guy i bought it from, is the original motor for the Pro 2.
     
  9. Jerry-rigged

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    more poles = more torque. Kv seems about right.

    You may poke around in the ESC settings and see if you can turn the punch down. Also, maybe bump the pinion up to 20t or so, see if that will help control the torque. Also as you increase the pinion, you need to watch the heat carefully, and make sure the motor stays under about 170f-180f. Get a IR thermometer - If you have a Harbor Freight nearby, they have one for $12, or from Home Depot for about $20.
     
  10. Bri26

    Bri26 Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Big difference in the torque between a 2 pole and a 4 pole motor. Also, a big difference between the torque of a 540 motor and a 550 motor. Generally, 2wd is best with a 540 2 pole motor and 4wd is best with a 540 4 pole or a 550 4 pole motor. Turning down the punch and you may also be able to limit the torque with the ESC settings. Also, most ESC's can be programmed without a program card so it may be worth downloading the ESC instructions.

    You can also try softer rear springs and/or moving the rear shocks in on on the rear arms and the front shocks out on the front arms. This will soften the rear and stiffen the front for better rear traction.

    Best regards,
    Brian
     
    #10 Bri26, Mar 14, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
  11. biggman100

    biggman100 Well-Known Member

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    The shocks i think either need to be rebuilt or replaced on the Fury. I noticed yesterday that, at least on the one side, it seems to sag, and the shocks seem really soft, so, as soon as the parts come, im going to try rebuilding them. Getting parts is a challenge for me, since my nearest LHS is 150 miles away, so, a lot of stuff i end up having to order online and wait for. The only reason i got the tires and gears from the shop is because i was up that way on family business. The nearest harbor freight is 80 miles away, so, i did order a temp gun from amazon, its just taking forever to get here, which is why i haven't made any gearing changes yet. I have been out of the hobby at least 20 years, and only recently got back into it, so, im learning as i go. I can say, some of the newer tech, like lipo's and brushless require an entirely new learning curve. It used to be fairly simple. Higher turn motors went slower, lower turn motors were faster. Back then though, the 540 and 550 differences were, torque wise, nominal. It was more about longevity. The 550's typically lasted longer than the 540"s. Now, there are 2 pole and 4 pole, and everything seems to be labeled in KV, which isnt too hard to understand, once you figure out the basics. About the only thing that has remained constant is what affect gearing has.

    As for ESC programming, i did find the manual for the Castle that the Fury has, but, i cant find anything on the Racers Edge in the Pro 2 i have, so, im waiting on a programming card for it.

    To give you an idea how long its been since i really got into rc stuff, my last cars were a gold tub early nineties Team associated RC10, a Kyosho USA 1 truck, and a late eighties Tamiya Clod Buster. Back then, we used to typically make all our own battery packs, since they were better than anything you could find store wise.

    Last question for now. If i was to swap the motors for 2 pole motors, would the Racers Edge motor work in a Redcat Volcano EPX 4x4, or, would it be too much for that one, just because of how its designed?
     
  12. Bri26

    Bri26 Well-Known Member

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    The Racers Edge motor will be way more drivable in a 4wd like the Redcat Volcano EPX.

    Best regards,
    Brian
     
  13. biggman100

    biggman100 Well-Known Member

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    I want to say thank you to both of you for the advice. Other forums i have tried for other things usually get me nowhere, but, with this, i learned what i needed to know without all the drama.

    I don't have a program card for either ESC, but, i did find the manual for the Castle, but, when i tried to program it manually using the transmitter, all the ESC would do is act like it went into program mode, then, when i let the transmitter relax into neutral, it did the whole 2 beeps, a pause, and 2 more beeps like Castle said it would, but, then, no matter whether i tried the throttle or the brake, all the ESC would do is the 2 beeps, pause, 2 beeps, and continually repeat, so, i guess im going to have to order a program card for it, before i set something up wrong somehow.
     
  14. TeamCTS253

    TeamCTS253 Active Member

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    I had the same problem with my Team C TS2 with castle sidewinder. I turned the throttle end point down. It slows the truck down but makes it much easier to drive. Used to just spin out like the op said his was doing now it drives great.
     
  15. biggman100

    biggman100 Well-Known Member

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    I have tamed it some, although i still don't have the program card for it. It turns out the issue, or a big part of it, was mainly in the clutch. The pads were bad, and had some odd issues going on there. I replaced the pads, properly adjusted the clutch, and got it so it will at least go in a straight line, however, im having a few other issues that i am pretty sure are shock and ESC setting related, so, as soon as i get the new shock kits and oil, and the program card, ill fine tune it some more. One issue, whenever i try to turn at even a medium speed, it tends to lift the outside wheel, which i am sure is related to way too soft shocks (im thinking that based on experiences with my brothers big block dirt modified, and how softer shocks or springs can cause those kinds of issues). I also found out the cheap Ebay (i found the actual set he put on it on Ebay for less than $10 for a set of four) tires the guy i bought it from put on it balloon bad at even midrange speeds, so im waiting on a set of Duratrax for it. Another issue i think is shock related is that, especially in flat grassy areas, if i turn even mildly, the corner of the body will drop, hook the ground, and it tends to lay over on its side. On asphalt, when i turn, the corners of the rear part of the body scrape the ground.
     
  16. biggman100

    biggman100 Well-Known Member

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    I finally got the program card for it, as well as upgraded the rear shocks to some cheapo aluminum ones i found on amazon, and put the Duratrax on it, but, have barely been able to run it, since i live in upstate N.Y. and the weather here has sucked the last week or so.
     
  17. biggman100

    biggman100 Well-Known Member

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    I have played with everything from shock and spring settings, to tires, to esc settings, and nothing i do seems to tame it in any way. So far, i have tried 4 different types of tires, from heavy off road to soft dual purpose, with not much change there. I set the punch control to 100%, and set the brakes to the lowest setting so that they wouldnt grab as much when trying to turn. I even changed the rear shocks to an adjustable aluminum coil over set up, and have tried from 20 to 50WT oil, and all that did was make the donuts worse with the thumb screws turned it any little bit, so, im thinking the motor is just too much for it, and, since i am out of funds for now, at least for RC stuff, im just gonna have to deal with it for now. I put that motor and ESC in the Redcat, and even with the punch control at 100%, all that does is flip over and wheelie hard at anything over 1/4 throttle. The only thing i haven't been able to do is gear changes, since i did go from the pinion gear to one size up (sorry, cant remember at the moment what one is on it), and, that didn't help much, and i stripped the set screw, so, im going to have to drill the screw out before i can do any more gear changes.
     
  18. Skaxis

    Skaxis Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure why you're having so much trouble with your Fury and the Castle gear. I'm running Sidwinders in both my Fury's. One with a Castle motor and the other with a Speed Passion motor. I'm working on building up a 3rd Fury for a buddy. Once my bench is cleared off I have a set of STRacing aluminum shocks for my main Fury. When I'm building those up I'll check the settings I have set on the Sidewinders and exactly which motors I am running.
     
  19. biggman100

    biggman100 Well-Known Member

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    I think the biggest issue is turning out to be the guy i bought them from. I actually have bought 4 vehicles from him, one of which is a 4WD drift/touring car, and, since those i have had quite a few of over the years (i just got into short course and monster trucks recently, but, when i say over the years, i'm talking like buy a car, mess around with it a few weeks, then sell it, then not buy another one for a year or more), i know a bit about on road stuff, and, on the drift car, i found that it had 3 in 1 oil or something similar in the shocks, dry diff's, mismatched slipper pads, and a bunch of odd small issues (like, none of the shocks being in matching mounting holes from side to side), so, i drained the shocks (the stuff came out like water, and with all the issues with the car, would barely slide, let alone drift), rebuilt them with new o rings and 30wt oil, rebuilt the diffs and filled them with 30wt in the rear, and 35 in the front, changed the pinion from a 22 to a 19, and now, it drifts so well, and put so much power down it destroyed a cheap set of rubber tires in less than one battery, so, im thinking i need to go completely through the Fury, check the diff, as well as work on shock settings, and make sure he didn't do anything stupid to it (like, on the drift car, he had grub screws in the a arms to limit travel, and, they only had about an 1/8 inch in the front, and a 1/4 inch in the rear, which ended up collapsing all the springs), as well as check toe in and camber, and basically give it a complete going over. I just haven't had time now that the weather broke (i work outside, so, when its nice out, im working, sometimes 7 days a week). I did get a little time with it a few days ago, after putting new Dboots Sidewinders on it, but, didn't realize one of the rear hexes was bad, so, i kinda stripped the hex out of the wheel, so, i bought a new hex and bonded it to the inside of the wheel, but, haven't had time to see how it works. Before i do any more running it though, i plan on going over every bit of it, front to back, even if that means taking it completely apart. I am also going to drain the diff, if there is any oil in it, clean it, and refill it with 10K to start, and see what that does.
     
  20. Skaxis

    Skaxis Well-Known Member

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    What a mess!
     
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