X-team and other off-brand motors?

[Hector_Fisher]

I know all of these motors are made in china, but these two brands I've noticed seem slightly different than the standard Rocket or Surpass motors. They have the kv ratings, sizes, and wattage/RPM ratings, or features that seem to be better than the rocket or surpass brands (at least on paper). Those on-paper specs suit my needs better, so I'm curious.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256803071727063.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256803049883510.html

Some of the X-team motors are supposedly good up to 60k rpm? Does that seem legit? And also they have higher published wattage ratings than the standard Rocket/surpass motors.

The krunRC motors don't have many specs listed, but what they do have is removable front plates for all their cans, which makes changing bearings much easier than the small can diameter counterparts of Rocket motors. That's definitely a plus for me.

Looking for general thoughts or experience people have had with these or other "off brand" motors.

 

[N.Mango]

I know all of these motors are made in china, but these two brands I've noticed seem slightly different than the standard Rocket or Surpass motors. They have the kv ratings, sizes, and wattage/RPM ratings, or features that seem to be better than the rocket or surpass brands (at least on paper). Those on-paper specs suit my needs better, so I'm curious.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256803071727063.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256803049883510.html

Some of the X-team motors are supposedly good up to 60k rpm? Does that seem legit? And also they have higher published wattage ratings than the standard Rocket/surpass motors.

The krunRC motors don't have many specs listed, but what they do have is removable front plates for all their cans, which makes changing bearings much easier than the small can diameter counterparts of Rocket motors. That's definitely a plus for me.

Looking for general thoughts or experience people have had with these or other "off brand" motors.

For the price I would try them once...even twice.

 

[Sandracer_NL]

I‘ve been researching those XTeam motors this weekend! They are in my shopping cart because I saw Tamiya Blitzer Beetle kit that I just can’t get out of my head. Anyway I came across the XTeam 3650 when looking for an motor for it.
What I found is that the XTeam have a higher output (Watt) compared to the Surpass/Rocket. So the Xteam has more power, but that’s to run hotter. More power is always nice, but in a review of that 3650 XTeam the reviewer actually recommended the Surpass/Rocket.
So now I’m not only in doubt whether to buy that Blitzer kit and if I do which motor to buy.

 

[Hector_Fisher]

I‘ve been researching those XTeam motors this weekend! They are in my shopping cart because I saw Tamiya Blitzer Beetle kit that I just can’t get out of my head. Anyway I came across the XTeam 3650 when looking for an motor for it.
What I found is that the XTeam have a higher output (Watt) compared to the Surpass/Rocket. So the Xteam has more power, but that’s to run hotter. More power is always nice, but in a review of that 3650 XTeam the reviewer actually recommended the Surpass/Rocket.
So now I’m not only in doubt whether to buy that Blitzer kit and if I do which motor to buy.

Right. Unfortunately "max wattage" doesn't necessarily mean anything. Just depends on the circumstances for testing. IIRC, usually it's a certain steady state temperature and what amperage the motor is drawing at that steady state temperature. If you tested at a higher steady state temperature, you could skew those results?

Realistically, you SHOULD just be able to cool off any motor with more fans...
Did the reviewer give any specific as to why they recommended the surpass/rocket over xteam?

 

[LibertyMKiii]

I was talking to a guy who re-winds motors for the RC boat side of the hobby.
He said the big difference on the cheaper motors is the quality of the magnets and the wire. That is where the cost comes in.

The lower quality wire will have higher resistance/generate more heat, run less efficiently, and the magnets generally cannot handle the heat well.

Long story short they are fine if you keep em cool! Maybe designate it as a spring/fall/winter motor

 

[Sandracer_NL]

Right. Unfortunately "max wattage" doesn't necessarily mean anything. Just depends on the circumstances for testing. IIRC, usually it's a certain steady state temperature and what amperage the motor is drawing at that steady state temperature. If you tested at a higher steady state temperature, you could skew those results?

Realistically, you SHOULD just be able to cool off any motor with more fans...
Did the reviewer give any specific as to why they recommended the surpass/rocket over xteam?

I’ve only found the XTeam motors are sold on Aliexpress/Amazon so I take the watts with a grain of salt. The watts are quite a bit higher comparable to other similar sizes motors as are the rpm’s. Maybe they want to be the motor maker for the speedrunners, they look like a copy of Castle motors.
The reviewer recommended the Surpass/Rocket motor due to lower temperatures. Maybe the XTeam has more power, but is more for speedrunners and the Surpass/Rocket for bashing (longer runtimes where lower temperatures are more important).

 

[Hector_Fisher]

I was talking to a guy who re-winds motors for the RC boat side of the hobby.
He said the big difference on the cheaper motors is the quality of the magnets and the wire. That is where the cost comes in.

The lower quality wire will have higher resistance/generate more heat, run less efficiently, and the magnets generally cannot handle the heat well.

Long story short they are fine if you keep em cool! Maybe designate it as a spring/fall/winter motor

Agreed!
And that's the part where the "efficiency" portion comes in like you say. Two motors of the same specs but from different brands SHOULD produce the same power if you were to apply the same voltage. However, in reality, they will have different materials of varying quality and ultimately will have different power/torque outputs.

Better/thicker copper wire for the winding would decrease resistance and therefore produce less heat. Better magnets would create more torque when the magnetic field is created. Better materials in the rotor would decrease weight which would increase power. Etc.

Hard to tell about the quality of these motors with such little data on them.

I’ve only found the XTeam motors are sold on Aliexpress/Amazon so I take the watts with a grain of salt. The watts are quite a bit higher comparable to other similar sizes motors as are the rpm’s. Maybe they want to be the motor maker for the speedrunners, they look like a copy of Castle motors.
The reviewer recommended the Surpass/Rocket motor due to lower temperatures. Maybe the XTeam has more power, but is more for speedrunners and the Surpass/Rocket for bashing (longer runtimes where lower temperatures are more important).

Good point. If they were sold elsewhere there would be an indication of reputability. Considering this is for a current budget speed running build of mine, that might work out...

At this price though, maybe N.Mango is right, just buy and be the guinea pig for everyone?

 

[N.Mango]

I was talking to a guy who re-winds motors for the RC boat side of the hobby.
He said the big difference on the cheaper motors is the quality of the magnets and the wire. That is where the cost comes in.

The lower quality wire will have higher resistance/generate more heat, run less efficiently, and the magnets generally cannot handle the heat well.

Long story short they are fine if you keep em cool! Maybe designate it as a spring/fall/winter motor

Yea for sure! Quality magnets hobby motors or not are pricey. I wonder what would happen if someone made a "no holds Barr" brushless motor

 

[LibertyMKiii]

Agreed!
And that's the part where the "efficiency" portion comes in like you say. Two motors of the same specs but from different brands SHOULD produce the same power if you were to apply the same voltage. However, in reality, they will have different materials of varying quality and ultimately will have different power/torque outputs.

Better/thicker copper wire for the winding would decrease resistance and therefore produce less heat. Better magnets would create more torque when the magnetic field is created. Better materials in the rotor would decrease weight which would increase power. Etc.

Hard to tell about the quality of these motors with such little data on them.

Good point. If they were sold elsewhere there would be an indication of reputability. Considering this is for a current budget speed running build of mine, that might work out...

At this price though, maybe N.Mango is right, just buy and be the guinea pig for everyone?

With that price point I am going to guess they didn't opt for the finest materials
Also cheap enough that you won't cry if it dies.

Yea for sure! Quality magnets hobby motors or not are pricey. I wonder what would happen if someone made a "no holds Barr" brushless motor

NeuMotors has some in the 500-800.00 range
So does Lehner.
One day I'd love to try a Lehner motor in a speed runner.
https://www.mgm-controllers.com/en/sensored-lmt-3080

 

[N.Mango]

NeuMotors has some in the 500-800.00 range
So does Lehner.
One day I'd love to try a Lehner motor in a speed runner.
https://www.mgm-controllers.com/en/sensored-lmt-3080

I've been keeping up with some of those stuff on YT. They are freakin awesome but I still wonder if there's some scientific crazy powerful magnets that would make a brushless motor straight up ridiculous. I'm sure one of these social media millionaires will have one made one day.

 

[LibertyMKiii]

I've been keeping up with some of those stuff on YT. They are freakin awesome but I still wonder if there's some scientific crazy powerful magnets that would make a brushless motor straight up ridiculous. I'm sure one of these social media millionaires will have one made one day.

From what I have seen NeuMotors perform with 1% of the TP Power motors not making them worth the 2-3X cost.

Not sure on Lehner. No one seems to run them in speed runners for good performance comparison. I have seen a few people use them in 1/5 bashers and blow the motor up for one reason or another and get very pissed about it due to the cost.

 

[N.Mango]

From what I have seen NeuMotors perform with 1% of the TP Power motors not making them worth the 2-3X cost.

Not sure on Lehner. No one seems to run them in speed runners for good performance comparison. I have seen a few people use them in 1/5 bashers and blow the motor up for one reason or another and get very pissed about it due to the cost.

Oh yea I would be pissed if I blew a motor like that!
I'm not a speed run guy but I'm a fan and I've never really seen them used in speed runs either. Maybe too worried about ruining a motor of that caliber...?

 

[Hector_Fisher]

With that price point I am going to guess they didn't opt for the finest materials
Also cheap enough that you won't cry if it dies.



NeuMotors has some in the 500-800.00 range
So does Lehner.
One day I'd love to try a Lehner motor in a speed runner.
https://www.mgm-controllers.com/en/sensored-lmt-3080

So if you boil it down, bearing quality aside (since those are replaceable), really the only downside to a "low quality" motor is heat? Right?

 

[LibertyMKiii]

So if you boil it down, bearing quality aside (since those are replaceable), really the only downside to a "low quality" motor is heat? Right?

Assuming you are not trying to spin really high RPMs.... then yes. Heat and performance are potential weak points. Most of the time these lower-cost motors can perform within 5% of an expensive motor so I'd say it's very much worth the cost for the average RC user/basher.

Motors like the Castle 1721 and TP CM and SCM series have a metal sleeve instead of the standard kevlar-wrapped rotors that can spin at much higher RPMs.

 

[Velodromed]

I really like this thread and am learning much so thank you all.

I use surpass/rocket motors in my bashers and mini-infraction and have been happy with them. I was wondering about the x team motors…

 

[Hector_Fisher]

Assuming you are not trying to spin really high RPMs.... then yes. Heat and performance are potential weak points. Most of the time these lower-cost motors can perform within 5% of an expensive motor so I'd say it's very much worth the cost for the average RC user/basher.

Motors like the Castle 1721 and TP CM and SCM series have a metal sleeve instead of the standard kevlar-wrapped rotors that can spin at much higher RPMs.

Right, forgot about the durability aspect. The stator is more affected by the heat aspect, while the rotor is more affected by the RPM aspect. Statistically there is a higher likelihood of a lower quality motor failing early due to 1) less material used, 2) cheaper/lower quality materials used, or 3) inadequate or poor designs.

Interestingly, i think this does come in to play in my case since the X-team motor is "rated" to 60k rpm. Knowing that many TP and castle motors are also rated to that high RPM makes me consider either that A) the castle/TP motors are way overpriced for their materials and/or quality (which may be true to some extent), or B) the X-team motors are cheaper because they cut corners in manufacturing/materials/design to get them to a lower price point.

It's probably C) which is a combination of both A) and B).

Short term, I feel like you would know relatively soon whether the motor would last at 60k rpm (which I plan to run close to ). Like within the first or second run. Long term, i wouldn't expect it to last as long as the higher priced motor. That's just based on statistics. How long though--that's the gamble. Ultimately you'd have to factor that into how much you pay for it.