Promodeler DS630BLHV.

[Greengaunja]

First, allow me to state this isn't a rant against Promodeler. I will honestly state I treated this servo like the mouthy rebellious unwanted stepchild. Its been ĺcompletely submerged enough times to be immune to water boarding. It's taken tumbles and smack in possibly every manner you can think of.
Last year, after going through so many servo, cheap and otherwise, I bought a DS630BLHV for my SCX10.iii. Long story short, I got a TF2 and shelfed the Axial pending a rebuild. The servo worked during the last time out. It sat on my bench since last fall. Recently I took it out to check if a mount I made worked. And this weekend an Amazon cheapie pooped the bed so I put this in my TT02.
-plugged in properly and wires show no scuffs or missing insulation.
-endpoints were always used on the Axial. Whether or not it was 100% properly set is anyone's guess.
-the esc and receiver are the exact same ones from the Axial(Mamba X/R7FG)
-no binding, the whole front end including steering crank is Yeah Racing upgraded. Smooth as butter.

The servo refused to respond when powered up. No movement, no vibration. No sounds obviously loud enough for e to hear. Teeth are fine. But in 2-3 minutes of trying to figure out what was wrong, the servo grew VERY hot. That tells me there is a short.


My real questions are:
Is it normal for servos to "degrade" if left idle for months after heavy use?
Is it worthwhile or cost effective to have it repaired? Promodelers site mentions servo repair several times, even them repairing, but has no info on how to initiate a repair request.
Anyone have any guesses as to what happened? I'm 100% convinced the problem was me and not the servo. Just not sure how .
And yeah, I did email Promodeler this morning. Just figured you guys could answer faster and save me time.

 

[Dan B.]

John is usually pretty good at communicating, but he does prefer phone calls. He‘ll probably tell you to send it back for evaluation as he always wants to see how his babies failed. I’ve never had one of his go bad yet. The 630 is my favorite, go-to servo.
After he receives it and takes a look I’ll bet you’re going to get scolded.

 

[Greengaunja]

John is usually pretty good at communicating, but he does prefer phone calls. He‘ll probably tell you to send it back for evaluation as he always wants to see how his babies failed. I’ve never had one of his go bad yet. The 630 is my favorite, go-to servo.
After he receives it and takes a look I’ll bet you’re going to get scolded.

No bet! Its a sure thing as he personally warned me against pretty everything in the first paragraph lol
Kidding aside, this servo has outlasted every other I tried that was put through the same paces.

 

[Dan B.]

No bet! Its a sure thing as he personally warned me against pretty everything in the first paragraph lol
Kidding aside, this servo has outlasted every other I tried that was put through the same paces.

I’ll bet it was prolonged damage from water infiltration. But whatever, when you talk you must lie to him and tell him you ran it on a dedicated LiPo and not a BEC.

 

[Greengaunja]

I’ll bet it was prolonged damage from water infiltration. But whatever, when you talk you must lie to him and tell him you ran it on a dedicated LiPo and not a BEC.

don't worry. Got that and the fact i only ever ran it once, and indoors too!. Only time it ever saw moisture was when the mailman dropped it off while it was raining.
But yeah.. I think so too. Just weird it took that long to pop up. But who knows, if I ran it just one more time it may have done the same.

 

[parcou]

don't worry. Got that and the fact i only ever ran it once, and indoors too!. Only time it ever saw moisture was when the mailman dropped it off while it was raining.
But yeah.. I think so too. Just weird it took that long to pop up. But who knows, if I ran it just one more time it may have done the same.

I have a few of those and think even if he points the finger at ya...still worth the cost of repair for a quality servo that you know is good vs buying complete new or another brand....maybe just see what he says. No is the worse you can get, and if he says can't repair you are still in the same boat...if he does not.

 

[Cheez]

I’ve been there. Get on the phone with him and you are guaranteed to get well informed educated lecture.

 

[Dan B.]

I’ve been there. Get on the phone with him and you are guaranteed to get well informed educated lecture.

You ain’t whistlin’ Dixie! Personally, I like John and have mad respect for his products. But more than one person on this forum has boycotted PM servos because they took offense to his sometimes overbearing approach. But hey, I’ve dealt with a few engineers and it isn’t an uncommon quality. He’s way smarter than me, he is responsible for engineering these things, he regards them as his children, and he knows he’s way smarter than me. So I keep my tongue. The ball is most definitely in his court.
Two of the finest engineers I ever met cut me off from ever purchasing from them again because I argued with them. And one of them got over a quarter of a million dollars in business from me the year he cut me off. I was never able to sell his products again. And this was just one guy, with a staff of 2, working out of a machine shop in Southern CA. He didn’t give two poops about how much revenue I was providing. He knew he could sell every piece he produced to someone else.
If I ever feel compelled to argue with John it will be after I order a dozen or so of his 630BLHV’s for backup. You know, just in case…

 

[Greengaunja]

You ain’t whistlin’ Dixie! Personally, I like John and have mad respect for his products. But more than one person on this forum has boycotted PM servos because they took offense to his sometimes overbearing approach. But hey, I’ve dealt with a few engineers and it isn’t an uncommon quality. He’s way smarter than me, he is responsible for engineering these things, he regards them as his children, and he knows he’s way smarter than me. So I keep my tongue. The ball is most definitely in his court.
Two of the finest engineers I ever met cut me off from ever purchasing from them again because I argued with them. And one of them got over a quarter of a million dollars in business from me the year he cut me off. I was never able to sell his products again. And this was just one guy, with a staff of 2, working out of a machine shop in Southern CA. He didn’t give two poops about how much revenue I was providing. He knew he could sell every piece he produced to someone else.
If I ever feel compelled to argue with John it will be after I order a dozen or so of his 630BLHV’s for backup. You know, just in case…

His approach is EXACTLY why I like him. In business, you can tell his word and his products are something he takes seriously. Even if he throws a grain of salt, a pinch of sarcasm, and a dash of wit at it, it's still obvious his passion is there.

I’ve been there. Get on the phone with him and you are guaranteed to get well informed educated lecture.

See, I knew that eventually a hearing loss would be a blessing in disguise

 

[SrC]

I’ll bet it was prolonged damage from water infiltration. But whatever, when you talk you must lie to him and tell him you ran it on a dedicated LiPo and not a BEC.

+1
100%.
Even better off telling John it is in an RC Plane. With a separate Lipo PS. Like the Air Crowd normally do. Bashing Big Air doesn't count/put you in the Air RC realm.
PM is Not a Surface RC Servo company. They don't even test their servos in Surface RC's.
They tend to stay in their lane this way. Surface RC Bashers really destroy servos easily.
And you never see anyone Flying their RC Air Planes in the rain and through mud, water or snow. Air Rc's have lower servo impacts if any, to the Surface Controls.
I read through their warranty and repair service. They can even deny a repair, if you to are willing to pay for it.
They don't want to take a chance on some repairs if it looks abused., forcing you to buy another servo. And lets face it, Surface RC used Servos all look abused at some point. Internally and otherwise.
My spin.

 

[parcou]

^^^^ I like it. Been happy with the few I have although I do not run a separate battery as he recommends. I'll have to a hit if it ever fails and he calls me out on it

 

[Greengaunja]

+1
100%.
Even better off telling John it is in an RC Plane. With a separate Lipo PS. Like the Air Crowd normally do. Bashing Big Air doesn't count/put you in the Air RC realm.
PM is Not a Surface RC Servo company. They don't even test their servos in Surface RC's.
They tend to stay in their lane this way. Surface RC Bashers really destroy servos easily.
And you never see anyone Flying their RC Air Planes in the rain and through mud, water or snow.
I read through their warranty and repair service. They can even deny a repair, if you to are willing to pay for it.
They don't want to take a chance on some repairs if it looks abused., forcing you to buy another servo. And lets face it, Surface RC used Servos all look abused at some point. Internally and otherwise.
My spin.

Yeah, I get it. Everything is made to be disposable these days. And I'm sure they are busy as hell and therefore that makes doing repairs hardly worth their time. If John warranties that, we can all line up to name him Stupid. And I know he will never give us, or anyone else, that satisfaction. I put that servo through seven circles of hell and then some more. Maybe a part me wanted to find out just how abuse it could take. **hide from jbeech** *** I would hate for this to be such a simple thing like the Mamba X BEC fried it. Especially since he educated me on virtues of stand alone power for servos***
All this being said, I only wonder if it's worthwhile to repair. It was, no, IS a great servo. No complaints if I have to buy another but if my issue is a fried motor or motherboard and a repair is feasible, why not?

 

[SrC]

Any decent Surface RC basher ESC worth its grain of salt should operate any servo properly. I don't understand why Only PM servos MUST Be run with a Lipo. I get it that a lipo or any battery provides much cleaner current. But I think we are splitting hairs.
Maybe PM uses a different and Sensitive Servo internal" Power Regulating Supply ", one that requires a "Cleaner" Lipo/Nim Battery Current? We are not talking mission critical Mil-Spec Drone applications here.
Seems nit picky to me. Reading between the lines, PM uses that to always fall back on... "it's User error". I would never use a separate Lipo for my Surface RC Steering Servo. Except in my Nitro Rigs. The exception, for obvious reasons.
Not even a UBEC would I use for a basher rig. No need to.

 

[Greengaunja]

Any decent Surface RC basher ESC worth its grain of salt should operate any servo properly. I don't understand why Only PM servos MUST Be run with a Lipo. I get it that a lipo or any battery provides much cleaner current. But I think we are splitting hairs.
Maybe PM uses a different and Sensitive Servo internal" Power Regulating Supply ", one that requires a "Cleaner" Lipo/Nim Battery Current? We are not talking mission critical Mil-Spec Drone applications here.
Seems nit picky to me. Reading between the lines, PM uses that to always fall back on... "it's User error". I would never use a separate Lipo for my Surface RC Steering Servo. Except in my Nitro Rigs. The exception, for obvious reasons.
Not even a UBEC would I use for a basher rig. No need to.

It has more to do with peak performance. Read his article "will a Max 6 power my servo" and he explains the amperage difference between what the esc is capable of and what batteries are.
https://www.promodeler.com/askJohn/Will-a-Hobbywing-Max6-run-my-servo

He recommends stand-alone power sources because it really is the only way to reap the full benefit of any servo.

 

[SrC]

For bashing use, the benefit seems to be a moot point.

The servo will work fine on 7.4V because the maximum it's capable of working with is 8.4V.


________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Regarding 25A, I suspect that's merely a fat finger error on someone's part so when you see this, my advice is ignore it.

- When you see this about 25A, it's likely an error

And the reason I say this is because a closer reading of the specifications shows the unit is rated at 6A (and likely where the 6 in Max6 comes from within the product's name).

Anyway, they mention 6A in several places, this is an example.

- Here the specs are more clearly stating 7.2V and 6A

Anyway, if you're OK with the servo's performance at 7.2V, then the servo will be perfectly happy functioning at 7.2V not because it's capable of operating at 8.4V, which is higher. Note; that they mention 7.2V in the specs - maybe another fat finger error? Could be is my opinion meaning they probably mean 7.4V (remember, English isn't their first language so cut them some slack).

Anyway, our servo is also capable of operating on 6V. The real question is; are you willing to pay for our servo and not get 100% of what you paid for?


_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Does this strike you as a strange question? Yes.
25 amp BEC is merely the burst supply of amps for a milisecond.

The whole explanantion here sounds stupid to me.
With any Servo, you want the optimum BEC volts for the Servo in hand. Sure. But a servo will work fine in many cases with lesser voltage.
And with the Max 6, the number 6 does not refer to the 6 Volts BEC or amps that this ESC can provide.
Sounds like misinformed BS or assumptions to me.
And not familiar with Surface ESC's in general, IMHO.

 

[Dan B.]

Any decent Surface RC basher ESC worth its grain of salt should operate any servo properly. I don't understand why Only PM servos MUST Be run with a Lipo. I get it that a lipo or any battery provides much cleaner current. But I think we are splitting hairs.
Maybe PM uses a different and Sensitive Servo internal" Power Regulating Supply ", one that requires a "Cleaner" Lipo/Nim Battery Current? We are not talking mission critical Mil-Spec Drone applications here.
Seems nit picky to me. Reading between the lines, PM uses that to always fall back on... "it's User error". I would never use a separate Lipo for my Surface RC Steering Servo. Except in my Nitro Rigs. The exception, for obvious reasons.
Not even a UBEC would I use for a basher rig. No need to.

I’ve had one Spektrum BLX 6s ESC/BEC that glitched when running a PM630, but you kind of had to work at it to get it to do it. My NOTO in thick grass with those big-assed tires and me with my radio doing a hardcore L/R/L/R/L/R while it was stationary. It would glitch, the ESC would reset, and that was all. Never was able to pull enough amps out of it while actually running/bashing to glitch it. And a Castle or HobbyWing ESC BEC runs them with no problem at all. On my Mojave I’m running several lights, three fans, and the PM 630 off my receiver from my Max 6 and have never experienced a problem. And for the love of god don’t tell JB, but I’ve only ever run one of his standard servos from a dedicated LiPo, and I’ve never had an issue.
So I totally agree with you, it’s splitting hairs as to how to power it up. At least for us “peasant” surface guys. Because after all, if we have a servo glitch or fail, our sh*t doesn’t fall out of the sky like the uber expensive planes do. And John’s a fly-guy of the highest order.
That said, I run all of his 1/5 scale, hairy, monster, amp hogging servos from a dedicated LiPo. Those things could glitch the whole Northeastern grid.

The whole explanantion here sounds stupid to me.
With any Servo, you want the optimum BEC volts for the Servo in hand. Sure. But a servo will work fine in many cases with lesser voltage.

Yes, but John’s argument isn’t the total number of volts available, or even amps. It’s the matter of the cleanest possible power source as measured on his oscilloscope for the maximum rated performance of that particular servo.
So yeah, the servo may not be in a Utopian Happy Place on the ideal planet when run from that nasty, dirty, Third World voltage supplied by a BEC, but I think the measurable (or at least practical) performance difference of the servo would be pretty negligible. At least, again, for us surface schmucks…

 

[SrC]

There are many servos that are inherently AMP hogs no matter the ESC in hand.
Savox has a slew of them if you ask me. I got 3 Savox's altogether. The (2) 1210's were AMP hogs no matter what ESC I was running. It's why they were bundled with A "Glitch Buster". Just a crutch IMHO. Seems that with ESC's and Servos, A Capacitor(s) is a band-aid approach for a poor design. Implemented with post production runs.
I also found that my Axial Crawler with a BS RTR Brushed ESC actually runs slightly better, just with one of the Sav 1210's, Just not happy with the intermittent glitching that still shows up once in a while. Seems when it gets warmed up/hot , it happens. I know its the servo because I also used a Servo Testor. 1210's are a strong precise servo otherwise. Just not a flawless one, considering its pricepoint.
I would almost always blame the Servo more than the ESC in most cases. A bad ESC's BEC circuit usually reveals itself with other symptoms.

Edited.

 

[Dan B.]

There are many servos that are inherently AMP hogs no matter the ESC in hand.
Savox has a slew of them if you ask me. I got 3 Savox's altogether. The (2) 1210's were AMP hogs no matter what ESC I was running. It's why they were bundled with A "Glitch Buster".

Dude, I’m right there with you. For $10 or $20, literally everybody should have a glitch buster plugged into their receiver.

 

[Radiocontrolsoul]

So the glitch buster just plugs into an open port on receiver? I got one with my savox and haven’t used it or really even new what it was for

 

[Dan B.]

So the glitch buster just plugs into an open port on receiver? I got one with my savox and haven’t used it or really even new what it was for

Yup. Just a mini cap-pack that can feed a few amps to the receiver when called for. They won’t change the rotation of the earth, but they can help fill a small, yet needed gap.