RCBattery.com 4s Lipo puffing after 3 runs

[Moirae]

Based on the 3.6V, you simply ran them into the ground. High C batteries don't like it. At the end of run, your lipo should be in the 3.7V range to keep it healthy. That is my guess.
45VC is considered high for them, they don't inflate the C ratings like all others.

If you keep running to LVC, this is what you will get.
Cheaper '100C' types are in a realistic 15C range, and they can take the low voltage a little better, they just get there a lot quicker.

man my liperior suck balls if I set lvc to 3.7. iirc I had to set them to 3.55 before they became decent. I was getting bad voltage sag which was leading to my electronics acting starved for power. Lowering the LVC turned them into decent lipo for me and I haven't had any problems with them, IR still seems about the same. For some reason I remember rcbattery.com recommending 3.4v or something but I could be confusing them with a different brand. I also have to lower lvc for my cnhl racing packs too. My smc,'s get set to 3.7 though.

https://www.smc-racing.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=174_173

Some cool info on higher IR lipo needing a lower lvc setting, for anyone interested!

 

[djrahbee]

If you keep running to LVC, this is what you will get.

I run to LVC on every rig...with every battery and this has never happened before. What the hell is LVC for if you can run down to it? Granted I'm still relatively new so my experience with lipos is limited. Am I doing something wrong???

 

[chilly81]

I run to LVC on every rig...with every battery and this has never happened before. What the hell is LVC for if you can run down to it? Granted I'm still relatively new so my experience with lipos is limited. Am I doing something wrong???

I can’t comment on the puffing situation, but I do know that running to LVC shortens the overall cycle life of a battery. There are charts on the Internet, giving life spans in cycles versus depth of discharge.

Personally, I don’t use it more because I find it unreliable. I tried it on a few cars and a couple times it went really low like 3.2 so I just don’t use it anymore. I run a car for about 10 minutes and I have a good feel of where it’s going to be based on what I’ve been doing and I almost always end up at 3.7 3.8 range.

If it really was reliable and could cut off at 3.5 like it supposed to, I’d probably use it just because of the convenience and deal with a shorter lifespan.

 

[KnowAir]

Well that's disappointing to see.. I had intentions of trying them. What rig with what power system? 45c should be fine for stock, assuming they're truly 45c. Upgraded power on 45c could be the problem?
I once ran a brand new set of 25c 2x2s in my TC Kronos xtr w/TC combo..was the only run those batteries ever made..hot damn!!
They were $8 each off amazon..

 

[djrahbee]

I can’t comment on the puffing situation, but I do know that running to LVC shortens the overall cycle life of a battery. There are charts on the Internet, giving life spans in cycles versus depth of discharge.

Personally, I don’t use it more because I find it unreliable. I tried it on a few cars and a couple times it went really low like 3.2 so I just don’t use it anymore. I run a car for about 10 minutes and I have a good feel of where it’s going to be based on what I’ve been doing and I almost always end up at 3.7 3.8 range.

If it really was reliable and could cut off at 3.5 like it supposed to, I’d probably use it just because of the convenience and deal with a shorter lifespan.

I didn’t realize stopping at 3.7-3.8 was optional. I know that’s good for storage but I thought running them down to 3.4-3.5 was fine as long as they were brought back and kept at a storage charge.

Well that's disappointing to see.. I had intentions of trying them. What rig with what power system? 45c should be fine for stock, assuming they're truly 45c. Upgraded power on 45c could be the problem?
I once ran a brand new set of 25c 2x2s in my TC Kronos xtr w/TC combo..was the only run those batteries ever made..hot damn!!
They were $8 each off amazon..

Hobbywing Max 5 800kv. Just regular bashing around.

 

[KnowAir]

I didn’t realize stopping at 3.7-3.8 was optional. I know that’s good for storage but I thought running them down to 3.4-3.5 was fine as long as they were brought back and kept at a storage charge.

Hobbywing Max 5 800kv. Just regular bashing around.

Me too.. I don't really know (or care). I generally don't pay much attention TBH. Heck, most of the time I don't even bother with storage charge unless I know I'm not going to use for an extended period.
Run to LVC, remove, cool then toss em into my Ryobi tool bag..repeat.

Hobbywing Max 5 800kv. Just regular bashing around

I would suggest a higher C rating. Larger amp hour will help too. I'm not a fan of huge batteries like 9 or 10 amp hours (9000-10000mah) ruins the handling. Just me

 

[chilly81]

I didn’t realize stopping at 3.7-3.8 was optional. I know that’s good for storage but I thought running them down to 3.4-3.5 was fine as long as they were brought back and kept at a storage charge.

Yeah it's all a matter of diminishing returns... more cycles out of the battery, but shorter runs to stop at lower DoD. Time at in storage is when the storage voltage is important (storing overnight at 3.6 vs 2 months).

battery info You can see if you look for the table labeled "Cycle life as a function ofdepth of discharge" just for the info.

A battery might not last nearly that many cycles anyway due to so many other reasons too anyway! If I had a $300 21Ah 12S battery or something, I'd focus more on it... a $25 3S5Ah? meh.

I think the important part is not to go super low - which is why I'd probably use it if I found it reliable, but my experience was that it was very flaky and unreliable on the cars I tried using it on and it went way lower than the setting would indicate it should.

 

[djrahbee]

I was under the impression the LVC was more reliable/accurate. This is all good to know, thanks guys!

 

[jkflow]

LVC is a ESC safety feature more than Lipo protection but depends on brand.
Your call on how to use it.
Any discharge below 3.6/cell causes permanent damage, that's just chemistry. The more and harder, the worse it gets.
Your money, treat them like you want but can't change chemistry.

 

[King blitz]

Self water is a myth. Find some way to discharge or take a hammer or an air gun to it. Then look at Smart batteries system. Much cheaper in long run and safer. One burned up car buys lots of Smart batteries.

Discharge with 12 volt buibs.

Taking a hammer to it does not sound safe.. discharge the lipo outside then cut the leads off and drop it off any local hardware store or a mechanic shop where they have safe drums for disposal.

 

[SrC]

"Destroy" mode on my ISDT charger always works. If the lipo is scary dangerous, I usually hammer a nail into them in a safe place and video the explosion/fire. Just for the beautiful firework display alone, and just to remind me of how deadly these lipos can be.

https://www.arrmaforum.com/threads/...rick-never-let-your-guard-down-or-else.57989/

 

[Moirae]

I was under the impression the LVC was more reliable/accurate. This is all good to know, thanks guys!

It's easy to tell all of you are using hobbywing or spektrum electronics . Castle lvc is accurate and allows you to set a specific voltage. I set the hobbywings to med lvc and never had a problem though. if I had to set lvc to 3.7v on some liperiors I would have returned them. They were useless in my k8s castle system with such a high cutoff. Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about but I've read from multiple brands that 3.2v or similar is the minimum and I've been told by better brands that 3.6 is the minimum. You can't even set castle lvc to higher than 3.5v after newest app update and again I've been using some of these lipo for over a year with zero issues, even with hobbywing lvc.

personally I'm going with what has been working for me, the one lipo I've ever had puff up happened while it was in storage charge not even being used and smc had accidentally sent me that lipo fully charged

 

[chilly81]

"Destroy" mode on my ISDT charger always works. If the lipo is scary dangerous, I usually hammer a nail into them in a safe place and video the explosion/fire. Just for the beautiful firework display alone, and just to remind me of how deadly these lipos can be.

https://www.arrmaforum.com/threads/...rick-never-let-your-guard-down-or-else.57989/

Cool! Didn't know it had that. Might give it a try out on the sidewalk - have a couple I need to get rid of.

 

[KnowAir]

LVC is a ESC safety feature more than Lipo protection but depends on brand.
Your call on how to use it.
Any discharge below 3.6/cell causes permanent damage, that's just chemistry. The more and harder, the worse it gets.
Your money, treat them like you want but can't change chemistry.

Agreed.. I run cheap stuff, I find the hobby more enjoyable when I'm not concerned about maximum everything.. just me.

 

[King blitz]

I can’t comment on the puffing situation, but I do know that running to LVC shortens the overall cycle life of a battery. There are charts on the Internet, giving life spans in cycles versus depth of discharge.

Personally, I don’t use it more because I find it unreliable. I tried it on a few cars and a couple times it went really low like 3.2 so I just don’t use it anymore. I run a car for about 10 minutes and I have a good feel of where it’s going to be based on what I’ve been doing and I almost always end up at 3.7 3.8 range.

If it really was reliable and could cut off at 3.5 like it supposed to, I’d probably use it just because of the convenience and deal with a shorter lifespan.

Use a lipo alarm on your balance connector and set it above your lvc.then you'll allways be safe no guessing

 

[chilly81]

It's easy to tell all of you are using hobbywing or spektrum electronics . Castle lvc is accurate and allows you to set a specific voltage. I set the hobbywings to med lvc and never had a problem though. if I had to set lvc to 3.7v on some liperiors I would have returned them. They were useless in my k8s castle system with such a high cutoff. Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about but I've read from multiple brands that 3.2v or similar is the minimum and I've been told by better brands that 3.6 is the minimum. You can't even set castle lvc to higher than 3.5v after newest app update and again I've been using some of these lipo for over a year with zero issues, even with hobbywing lvc.

personally I'm going with what has been working for me, the one lipo I've ever had puff up happened while it was in storage charge not even being used and smc had accidentally sent me that lipo fully charged

Yeah definitely - I have not tested it on my one castle rig. I was bitten by my Granite and my SCX6 (spectrum/Hobbywing), so I stopped using them altogether.

 

[SrC]

I run to LVC on every rig...with every battery and this has never happened before. What the hell is LVC for if you can run down to it? Granted I'm still relatively new so my experience with lipos is limited. Am I doing something wrong???

Depends on the quality of the Lipo. And other variables.
I run LVC on my Stocker electrics FT as an example. And I get 50% LVC power cut and drive her back for a swap out immediately. And the lipo is usually around 3.7v./cell. I never let it go Full LVC "shutdown". Then you are down far too low in voltage. Running Sypom 6s, 6k Mah bricks. Supposed 120C cells. (AMZ cheapos). 17T/50T getting me 67Mph on pavement, 56mph on open grass/dirt ( stocker Tires) 3.7 degrees timing is all I run. Default 22.5 timing timing is way too high IMHO. Punch is at default "Level "4". BEC at 7.4v. Motor and ESC still run cool yet, at 50-60F ambient temps. I upgraded the stocker ESC fan and removed the ESC "shroud" completely. The motor has (2) 20x40 fans (nothing fancy) with No stocker Heat Sink, just a nice double fan mount. 28CFM's each. How I fly. Is still a wheelie monster with my chosen settings. Lipo temps hover around 94-100F maximum.
No puffing lipos ....Yet.
Run times are around 9-12 minutes. Realistic run times IMHO. All four of these Sypom packs have similar results. They have aprox 8 runs on each of them right now. All the cell IR's are around 1.5-2.5 ohms at full charge. FWIW.
I feel they got better performance after 3+ initial runs on them.
If charged and let them just sit, this can cause puffing. Also if you take them down too low in volts they will puff. Thats why they should be stored to 3.8-3.85v per cell when sitting unused. Lipos get ruined when they stay full charged too long or get way low in voltage. In a perfect world 3.7volt Cut Off's makes them last longest. It only takes one time that it drops to 3.0-3.2 v/cell and that cell will puff/fail. Always have a lipo checker out in the field with you to gage the cells of your packs.

 

[SrC]

Cool! Didn't know it had that. Might give it a try out on the sidewalk - have a couple I need to get rid of.

I don't recommend that. Do at your own risk.
Tape a long nail on the lipo just right and hit it with a hammer. One shot and it will smoke for a second then ignite. Be CAREUL. Enjoy the fireworks. Give at least 30 -50 plus feet safe distance from anything that will catch fire. Grass can also catch fire. You can feel the intense heat when it fireballs.
Have someone Take a video while you hammer it. Send the Video here for us to see.
Wear heavy Leather work gloves!

 

[slick2500]

Based on the 3.6V, you simply ran them into the ground. High C batteries don't like it. At the end of run, your lipo should be in the 3.7V range to keep it healthy. That is my guess.
45VC is considered high for them, they don't inflate the C ratings like all others.

If you keep running to LVC, this is what you will get.
Cheaper '100C' types are in a realistic 15C range, and they can take the low voltage a little better, they just get there a lot quicker.

Imho it is a crapshoot as to how long a battery will last. I had a set of 2s lipos that I drained below 3.0v a few times, left them charged for a couple of weeks ect and they lasted like 4 years then I've also had batteries that were puffed brand new in box.

 

[SrC]

+1
Lipos can be a mixed bag for many of us. Been there also, no matter the brand or Price. Got several DOA and leaking out the box lipos before.
I have 17 or so lipos here. After I recently tossed 3 of them. They were old and sitting around for like 3+ years. I even storage charged them every several months. They don't last. Humidity over time/ age gets the best of them. They will puff up out of nowhere. Hopefully they are stored safely in "vented" Ammo cans or similar. How I fly.