Shimming Notorious

[thepiper]

Perhaps all 6s models are the same, but I have some 13x16x0.1 shims coming in. I was told the shims are just needed behind the ring gear. Is this all I'll need to do?

 

[SrC]

That's all you need 95% of the time. If the bulkhead is completely assembled with shims in place and off the chassis, you can visibly see the input gear and ring gear mesh. If there is grinding of the gears you can feel it also, it is too tight. If the diff carrier can move left to right along both bearings it is definitely wrong and loose. Place your shims on the ring gear side most of the time.
Some also use 5mm I.D. smaller shims on the input gear to push it out more to the ring gear to get it more precise. Its all trial and error. It appear no 2 diffs are always the same in this regard to shimming. Start with your 13x16x.01 shims. You should be good. Sometimes just one or 2 is fine. make sure you check the 4 screws on the diff carrier/cup. If they are not snug and tightened evenly, this will also create backlash and a leaking diff as well. The factory doesn't always do a good of at tightening them. Sometimes evident and seen with diff fluid leaking. Wipe off the grease first, and examine well while you have it opened up. Then use any automotive NGLI 2 grease. Marine or whatever is fine on the ring gear. Not much is really needed. Just a heavy smear completley around the ring gear is all. Good luck.

 

[thepiper]

That's all you need 95% of the time. If the bulkhead is completely assembled with shims in place and off the chassis, you can visibly see the input gear and ring gear mesh. If there is grinding of the gear you can feel it also, it is too tight. If the diff carrier can move left to right along both bearings it is definitely wrong and loose. Place your shims on the ring gear side most of the time.
Some also use 5mm I.D. smaller shims on the input gear to push it out more to the ring gear to get it more precise. Its all trial and error. It appear no 2 diffs are always the same in this regard to shimming. Start with your 13x16x.01 shims. You should be good. Sometimes just one or 2 is fine. make sure you check the 4 screws on the diff carrier/cup. If they are not snug and tightened evenly, this will also create backlash and a leaking diff as well. The factory doesn't always do a good ob at tightening them. Sometimes evident and seen with diff fluid leaking. Wipe off the grease first, and examine well while you have it opened up. Then use any automotive NGLI 2 grease. Marine or whatever is fine on the ring gear. Not much is really needed. Just a heavy smear completley around the ring gear is all. Good luck.

Okay, so typically the internal gears are good to go? I have some Lucas green grease, that should work fine. I haven't noticed any leaking yet, but I'll be taking a look at the screws when I do go ahead a shim it.

 

[SrC]

Lucas is fine. Actually good stuff as greases go.
It cant hurt to open the diff carrier cup and see if the fluid is full. But you will need fluid on hand for that while it is opened. The latest release of 6S RTR diffs have been shimmed well.(internally) I open mine. Its your call. If yu open it and see its low, you need fluid on hand. Best to get fluids for future maintenance. A must have anyway. I use 60kfr, 500k center , 30k rear. Stock is 10k fr, 100k, 10k rear. Most guys go thicker like I do. Factory is too thin in general. But will work in the beginning. Till you get fluids on hand etc.

 

[thepiper]

Lucas is fine. Actually good stuff as greases go.
It cant hurt to open the diff carrier cup and see if the fluid is full. But you will need fluid on hand for that while it is opened. The latest release of 6S RTR diffs have been shimmed well. I open mine. Its your call. If yu open it and see its low, you need fluid on hand. Best to get fluids for future maintenance. A must have anyway. I use 60kfr, 500k center , 30k rear. Stock is 10k fr, 100k, 10k rear. Most guys go thicker like I do. Factory is too thin in general. But will work in the beginning. Till you get fluids on hand etc.

You find there is a lot of power loss in the front and rear diff with stock fluid? I'm trying to find where to get a good selection of diff fluid, seems everywhere I look has some stuff, but not all stuff. The really thin fluids like 500k have been a challenge to locate.

Are you sure stock on the Notorious is 100k in center? I thought it was 300k or something, to prevent it from always pulling wheelies. I'm guessing you went 500k because you don't like the front always leaving the ground...more of an on ground driver, rather than big air and backflips?

 

[SrC]

I went from 100k (always been the stock center CST) to 200K, then to 500K. A good throttle finger prevents wheelies. I don't care for wheelies. The novelty wears off quickly and goes against you. Just burns out your drivetrain. Hard to bash like they were designed. In my Noto. 200k was also fine. But with larger wheels 500k worked out fine. My Kraton likes 500k better in the center.
Diff oil is hard to source these days. Team Associated OILS are my choice but on B/O everywhere right now.
Traxxas has 500k.
60k and 30k Are easier to find in other brands.
With heavier weight diff oil, the rig will come alive and do less damage to the diffs overall and front tires from wheelies causing blown out tires from ballooning.
Amazon.com: Traxxas 5039 Differential Oil, 500,000 Weight: Toys & Games

Dedicated closed course track rigs use much lower diff oils. But not for bashing in the wide open at full throttle. You gain better mid air rotation with heavier diff fluids and the right balance of them Fr/Ctr/Rr.

 

[thepiper]

I went from 100k (always been the stock center CST) to 200K, then to 500K. A good throttle finger prevents wheelies. I don't care for wheelies. The novelty wears off quickly and goes against you. Just burns out your drivetrain. Hard to bash like they were designed. In my Noto. 200k was also fine. But with larger wheels 500k worked out fine. My Kraton likes 500k better in the center.
Diff oil is hard to source these days. Team Associated OILS are my choice but on B/O everywhere right now.
Traxxas has 500k.
60k and 30k Are easier to find in other brands.
With heavier weight diff oil, the rig will come alive and do less damage to the diffs overall and front tires from wheelies causing blown out tires from ballooning.
Amazon.com: Traxxas 5039 Differential Oil, 500,000 Weight: Toys & Games

Dedicated closed course track rigs use much lower diff oils. But not for bashing in the wide open at full throttle. You gain better mid air rotation with heavier diff fluids and the right balance of them Fr/Ctr/Rr.

http://rcdepot.ca/kyosil300000-kyosho-silicone-differential-oil-300000wt-40cc

http://rcdepot.ca/kyosil30000-kyosho-silicone-differential-oil-30000wt-40cc

http://rcdepot.ca/mugb0341-mugen-seiki-silicone-differential-oil-60000wt-50ml

 

[SrC]

Looks great . 300k is usually hard to find , A nice in between thickness for the center diff.
But that Kyosho is really expensive IMHO. $19.00 That's Canadian??? (CD) right?
The heavy weight oils are so hard to find these days. A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.
Here in the states I'm use to paying $8-10. for the Team Associated. That's all.

All those 3 oils got you covered. 60k fr, 300k cnt, 30k Rr.

 

[thepiper]

Looks great . 300k is usually hard to find , A nice in between thickness for the center diff.
But that Kyosho is really expensive IMHO. $19.00 That's Canadian??? (CD) right?
The heavy weight oils are so hard to find these days. A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.
Here in the states I'm use to paying $8-10. for the Team Associated. That's all.

All those 3 oils got you covered. 60k fr, 300k cnt, 30k Rr.

Now watch as I end up with 300k in the front, 60k center...I know I'll mess it up ?

The 500k was out of stock, but I figured 300 would still be good.

It is expensive, but I'm used to paying a lot more in Canada.

 

[SrC]

I ALWAYS do my diffs separately and use a silver marker to write the weight on each diff for this reason. I also made the Fr/Rr mistake once before.
If you rotate the diff in hand, you might be able to tell which of the two has thicker/ thinner oil in it. The center is easy enough. It has a spur gear on it. But I do all separately. And mark them. Good for future reference when rebuilding. I put the date also for reference. Diffs usually need maintenance every 10 or so hours of run time. Lipo packs average 20 minutes run time for reference.
Only have open the bottle of fluid for the diff you are refilling. The 300k is easy, it is like molasses compared to the 60k and 30k.( which appear to flow similar)

 

[thepiper]

I ALWAYS do my diffs separately and use a silver marker to write the weight on each diff for this reason. I also made the Fr/Rr mistake once before.

Separately is likely a good idea...of course I'll think to myself that it seems easier taking them all out at once. I think I may have a silver sharpie

 

[SrC]

I try to keep the same gears from each diff together as a set. I used to throw all 3 diff parts in one container with Brake Parts cleaner. Seems faster, but now I feel its better to keep the same Internal Satellite and Sun gears together as a group because they break in together and work best together, if that makes any sense.
I don't mix the gears from the 3 diffs together, same with the input and ring gears. I keep fronts and rears separately . Hope this helps.

Silver sharpie. wipe/clean the diff cup well, so the marker works good enough, that's all. Many guys do this. I started doing this when I built my Tekno MT. Saw a guy doing this in a Tekno build video. Some track guys actually prebuild many diffs and mark them. When racing, they just pop in different weighted diffs as needed to dial in the rig for the track they are on.

 

[TriggerHappy]

Im guna try 70 frnt 500 cntr 30 rear and see how that goes soon as my frnt and rear diffs come in. I already filled the center. As far as keeping all gears the same makes sense.

 

[thepiper]

Im guna try 70 frnt 500 cntr 30 rear and see how that goes soon as my frnt and rear diffs come in. I already filled the center. As far as keeping all gears the same makes sense.

What happened to your original diffs?

 

[TriggerHappy]

I bought a brand new v4 noto. Didnt shim them and blew the front ring gear and a pin. Blew the rear planetary gear and a pin. But was a factory bad output bearing on the front that started it all. Horizon hobby warrantied both diffs and one input gear. They are on backorder

 

[SrC]

Im guna try 70 frnt 500 cntr 30 rear and see how that goes soon as my frnt and rear diffs come in. I already filled the center. As far as keeping all gears the same makes sense.

It's great to experiment with slightly different weight oils. That 70/500/30 you are going for is exactly what I have in my Mojave. Man it is hooked up solid. Running only stock Arrma ESC/motor. It's begging for an 8S setup now with those diffs.

 

[TriggerHappy]

Thanks man i think that will get me in the ballpark. I know it will be a lil more easy on the diffs too.I wished i had checked all before running. But that is what a hobby is. Learning!! Thanks to you all on a.f.

 

[SrC]

Hey, my first 6S OC Arrma (V1), I literally trashed all the diffs out the box within 2 packs. I learned the hard way also.