Will my 6-pole motor eat my XLX2?

[K-BASH]

Everybody thinks ya need high kv,rpms to make power,not so much the case with electric motors.combustion motors need rpms to make power...high kv,rpms take more energy, amps to spin up..high rpms just make car harder to control..56mm torque puts power down controllablely...here's 1270kv 8s log putting out 20hp or 15,000w an only at 25,000rpms....no need to be close to 50,000rpm with them...imo low rpm torque is way better than high rpm horsepower.esc an packs will agree

This is run from this log..this is 25,000rpms.......CRAZY HUH.sounds like 80,000...lol.killed esc on this run

 

[Radiocontrolsoul]

Everybody thinks ya need high kv,rpms to make power,not so much the case with electric motors.combustion motors need rpms to make power...high kv,rpms take more energy, amps to spin up..high rpms just make car harder to control..56mm torque puts power down controllablely...here's 1270kv 8s log putting out 20hp or 15,000w an only at 25,000rpms....no need to be close to 50,000rpm with them...imo low rpm torque is way better than high rpm horsepower.esc an packs will agree

View attachment 295020
This is run from this log..this is 25,000rpms.......CRAZY HUH.sounds like 80,000...lol.killed esc on this run

Your minimum voltage got to 14.4??

 

[dure16]

yea I used to run one in my Talion XL and my Fireteam. Both paired with mmx8s's and they did GREAT! ran cool as ice too since they're a lot of motor for those rigs and I was running 6s. Only reason I took them out was to try a lightweight option. Also ran a 6 pole in my kraton 8s for a year with zero problems. Hell, life was good when I had that motor in my kraton

Dang I bet those smaller rigs were insane.

Apart from the power, I also can’t believe how smooth the motor is from a stop. It doesn’t cog at all. I can be facing uphill and pull the trigger as slow as possible, and still zero cogging.

If someone handed me the transmitter and said it was a sensored setup, I would believe them.

 

[Moirae]

Dang I bet those smaller rigs were insane.

Apart from the power, I also can’t believe how smooth the motor is from a stop. It doesn’t cog at all. I can be facing uphill and pull the trigger as slow as possible, and still zero cogging.

If someone handed me the transmitter and said it was a sensored setup, I would believe them.

100% agree man. I think some might be better than others but I've confused my tp 4070 1700kv with a sensored motor on at least 2 occasions lol. I used to have the castle 1650kv in my mojave and took it out for the tp 4070. Rig felt so smooth still I totally forgot I changed the motor

 

[SrC]

wow thats weird af. I wonder why this is happening all of a sudden? I tried like 3 different sensor cables too. I plan on trying the motor with a different xlx2 but I'm definitely expecting it to be an xlx2 issue. Dealing with castle warranty is not fun for me either

Tbh it runs great in sensorless mode. I'm just a bit salty because running sensored always feels even better. It's also nice being able to have that temperature cutoff on the motor.

Does the motor run with NO sensor cable? It should, if the cable or pinouts or the ESC is the issue and not the motor, internally. "Unsensored", did you try that? Probably did or not. What happens? That is an indicator where to look. If the motor still doesn't run and the ESC does a proper initialization, then take apart the motor, inspect it, and clean it out with elecrical contact spray, then lube the BB's. Try it again. again. Where I would start in this case.
>>> If the motor does run Unsensored, could even be Sensor Pin out damage. Not necessarily the sensor cable itself. Even some slightest Pinout corrosion can cause that. Try some electrical contact spray on the pinouts for both the motor and ESC. Good luck.

 

[Moirae]

Does the motor run with NO sensor cable? It should, if the cable or pinouts or the ESC is the issue and not the motor, internally. "Unsensored", did you try that? Probably did or not. What happens? That is an indicator where to look. If the motor still doesn't run and the ESC does a proper initialization, then take apart the motor, inspect it, and clean it out with elecrical contact spray, then lube the BB's. Try it again. again. Where I would start in this case.
>>> If the motor does run Unsensored, could even be Sensor Pin out damage. Not necessarily the sensor cable itself. Even some slightest Pinout corrosion can cause that. Try some electrical contact spray on the pinouts for both the motor and ESC. Good luck.

It does run fine with no sensor. I'm totally going to get some of that electrical contact spray and hopefully it works. thank you

 

[SrC]

Sensored setups rule. Hands down, the best driving experience.
Just that it adds another layer of frustration at times.

 

[Twitchfast]

Does the motor run with NO sensor cable? It should, if the cable or pinouts or the ESC is the issue and not the motor, internally. "Unsensored", did you try that? Probably did or not. What happens? That is an indicator where to look. If the motor still doesn't run and the ESC does a proper initialization, then take apart the motor, inspect it, and clean it out with elecrical contact spray, then lube the BB's. Try it again. again. Where I would start in this case.
>>> If the motor does run Unsensored, could even be Sensor Pin out damage. Not necessarily the sensor cable itself. Even some slightest Pinout corrosion can cause that. Try some electrical contact spray on the pinouts for both the motor and ESC. Good luck.

I basically have the same issue as Moirae, multiple sensor cables and I have cleaned it with both WD40's contact cleaner, and a fancier one my brother swears by (DeoxIT) and nothing has resolved the issue.
I honestly thought this was a Castle motor issue and I was unlucky, but Moirae has the issue with TP motors. Which then leads you to think it's the XLX2's that are the problem (since we both run them), except that isn't the case because my MGM ESC refuses to run sensored as well now.

I've had the back of the motors apart and the sensor board looks fine, couldn't see any corrosion, even reflowed the pins with leaded solder.
I have to say I have given up with sensored, it's a real shame but as far as I'm concerned I've exhausted all options, at very least the cars still work!

 

[SrC]

Never use WD40 around delicate Electronics or any RC parts including BB's. It just gums up. Attracts more crude. And that crude remaining is NOT Dielectric. Very conductive. So it Can dead short the circuits. And not very good around plastics IMHO. WD40 is more of a solvent and it needs to be flushed wherever you use it. It is far from a lubricant also.
Get yourself a can of Electrical Contact Spray, to clean out motors and all electrical components. Safe around plastics. Leaves no residue. It removes dirt and some corrosion and evaporates quickly. Any Auto parts store would have it. While at the AP store, pick up a Spray can of BrakeCleen, the Chlorinated Red can. Not the Green can, Non-Clorinated one. Best for cleaning out the BB's and more importantly all Metal Diff gears and parts. Just never use it for electrical parts. WallyWorld also has this stuff in the auto section.

 

[Twitchfast]

Never use WD40 around delicate Electronics or any RC parts including BB's. It just gums up. Attracts more crude. And that crude remaining is NOT Dielectric. Very conductive. So it Can dead short the circuits. And not very good around plastics IMHO. WD40 is more of a solvent and it needs to be flushed wherever you use it. It is far from a lubricant also.
Get yourself a can of Electrical Contact Spray, to clean out motors and all electrical components. Safe around plastics. Leaves no residue. It removes dirt and some corrosion and evaporates quickly. Any Auto parts store would have it. While at the AP store, pick up a Spray can of BrakeCleen, the Chlorinated Red can. Not the Green can, Non-Clorinated one. Best for cleaning out the BB's and more importantly all Metal Diff gears and parts. Just never use it for electrical parts. WallyWorld also has this stuff in the auto section.

WD40 sell a variety of solvents/cleaners and lubricants, I specifically said their contact cleaner because of that.
Either way there's some serious buggery afoot here, with any luck someone will find the root cause because I'm stumped.

 

[SrC]

@Twitchfast , I know all about the WD40 Specialist line of stuff. Have much of it. I did not see the "Contact Spray" in your post. Missed it I guess?
And I never seen Their Contact spray at all before. Not at THD where I buy it here in NYC.
I prefer Lectro-Motive contact spray by CRC. My go to for many years. MAF sensor spray is also a good alternative. Costs a bit more. Same results.

That aside, best to examine the Hall Effect Sensor's IC board inside the motor's endbell first. Use contact spray there also. If that doesn't work, then the ESC is bricked, at the other end of the Sensor Pin out circuit. Call CC. Also ask them about running 6- Pole motors and KV limits in regards. Curious to see what they say about 6-pole motors.

 

[Twitchfast]

@Twitchfast , I know all about the WD40 Specialist line of stuff. Have much of it. I did not see the "Contact Spray" in your post. Missed it I guess?
And I never seen Their Contact spray at all before. Not at THD where I buy it here in NYC.
I prefer Lectro-Motive contact spray by CRC. My go to for many years. MAF sensor spray is also a good alternative. Costs a bit more. Same results.

That aside, best to examine the Hall Effect Sensor's IC board inside the motor's endbell first. Use contact spray there also. If that doesn't work, then the ESC is bricked, at the other end of the Sensor Pin out circuit. Call CC. Also ask them about running 6- Pole motors and KV limits in regards. Curious to see what they say about 6-pole motors.

I've had the back of the motors apart and the sensor board looks fine, couldn't see any corrosion, even reflowed the pins with leaded solder.

Unfortunately I've already looked at the sensor board, despite looking perfect I fluxed and reflowed the sensor pins with lead solder, no dice.
Personally I'm blaming the motors at this stage, they're the common denominator and I find it difficult to believe two different brand of ESC lost sensor capabilities with the same motors.
The motors have been kept with their respective ESC, I haven't swapped them between eachother so there's no way one component caused both faults either.
The MGM ESC at least tried in sensored, it manages ~10 seconds of runtime before it goes into a limp mode. If I recall correctly the XLX2 moved about a foot at best then stopped, I suppose I should be thankful it didn't detonate lol

I live in the UK, so Castle's services are further than the last resort unfortunately. I might try contacting MGM to see if they have any suggestions because while I love Castle's products, I despise their customer service.

 

[SrC]

Everybody thinks ya need high kv,rpms to make power,not so much the case with electric motors.combustion motors need rpms to make power...high kv,rpms take more energy, amps to spin up..high rpms just make car harder to control..56mm torque puts power down controllablely...here's 1270kv 8s log putting out 20hp or 15,000w an only at 25,000rpms....no need to be close to 50,000rpm with them...imo low rpm torque is way better than high rpm horsepower.esc an packs will agree

View attachment 295020
This is run from this log..this is 25,000rpms.......CRAZY HUH.sounds like 80,000...lol.killed esc on this run

+1.
High torque/ lower kv motors with proper tall gearing always gets good results... all while doing it more efficiently. True for most heavy platforms.

 

[SrC]

Unfortunately I've already looked at the sensor board, despite looking perfect I fluxed and reflowed the sensor pins with lead solder, no dice.
Personally I'm blaming the motors at this stage, they're the common denominator and I find it difficult to believe two different brand of ESC lost sensor capabilities with the same motors.
The motors have been kept with their respective ESC, I haven't swapped them between eachother so there's no way one component caused both faults either.
The MGM ESC at least tried in sensored, it manages ~10 seconds of runtime before it goes into a limp mode. If I recall correctly the XLX2 moved about a foot at best then stopped, I suppose I should be thankful it didn't detonate lol

I live in the UK, so Castle's services are further than the last resort unfortunately. I might try contacting MGM to see if they have any suggestions because while I love Castle's products, I despise their customer service.

CC is in the States here. And one main reason I never pulled the trigger on a CC product was bad Cust Serv reviews. Spending $400.+ on their products deserves better service. Not that HW ESC's never fail, yet personally having 8 HW Sensored ESC's in all, Some 5+ years old and well used. , never failed me. I purchase direct from HW and their Cust service is very fast and knowldgeable. Seems that CC Tech Sup, depending who you get on a given day, have opposing views or answers to the issues. Takes just one person to deny your claim and then its a battle over a useless $400. paperweight, I heard this so many times. Its all over AF threads. Not hating CC. Just an observation.
Best to Call CC about this trend of issues. I wonder what they would say on any given day or Tech person there. I feel it is just Mfr QC issues. Not user error.

 

[SrC]

FWIW Sensored ESC's commonly have more issues than Non sensored on the whole. Regardles of the brand. Only becuase of the Sens. Lead and connectors.
And is not WP or dirt proof as a non Sensored ESC and sensored motor. Maybe user error in this case.
If my Sensor circuit had issues, I would just run in Sensorless mode and keep rolling. Crap happens. Keep driving.