Elegoo Neptune 4 Max

[Tex Koder]

Correct.. I tried to match their settings, even did what you said to show the differences. Still couldnt get near the optimization they do if I don't use their version of Cura. Sneaky bastards, maybe they actually did adjust something in the program itself.

So to follow up a little more on this matter-
Regarding their version -ELEGOO's version of Cura 5.6..
I couldn't find the exact differences neither ,but for absolute certainly they did Tweak & Modified the program for ONLY their printers.

You Can't add any other brands/models of printers like you could normally, even if you tried - by manual means/selection.

They definitely hacked that slicer for their machines.

oh do they, i'll def have to give that a try.

The only thing I hate, i mean hate lol, about Cura is slicing big things takes for ever. Nobody elses slicers are like that. Prusa no matter how big the file its seconds and its done. Super annoying. I hope orca is fast for slicing.

About the slicing speed...
Yes, I'm hitting that wall too on the bigger & more complex designs in Cura.

Apparently, Cura slicer app is CPU-based
vs Orca/Bambu/Prusa slicers which are leveraging the GPU enhanced in your computer
and that's how they are able to run their slicing so damn Fast!!

Wish Ultimaker would get with the program and re-write Cura to be GPU-based..!

But, I don't think they will do that.
Just too much effort. They would literally have to start from scratch.

 

[nomis38]

So to follow up a little more on this matter-
Regarding their version -ELEGOO's version of Cura 5.6..
I couldn't find the exact differences neither ,but for absolute certainly they did Tweak & Modified the program for ONLY their printers.

You Can't add any other brands/models of printers like you could normally, even if you tried - by manual means/selection.

They definitely hacked that slicer for their machines.

Yeah haha HACKED is prolly the best word to use for it . But the simple fact of this matter is it does not matter what printer you create in CURA "non-elegoo" it will not be faster then the Elegoo in "elegoo cura". It's simply IMO the faster printers next to Bambu. None I mean None are faster. I've imported every printer I can think of into CURA and OCRA slicer, They all suck in comparison to Elegoo Printers using the Elegoo Cura.

About the slicing speed...
Yes, I'm hitting that wall too on the bigger & more complex designs in Cura.

Apparently, Cura slicer app is CPU-based
vs Orca/Bambu/Prusa slicers which are leveraging the GPU enhanced in your computer
and that's how they are able to run their slicing so damn Fast!!

Wish Ultimaker would get with the program and re-write Cura to be GPU-based..!

But, I don't think they will do that.
Just too much effort. They would literally have to start from scratch.

Yeah it really sucks to because if imma use my N4M its gonna be a huge item im printing every time.

 

[nomis38]

Hopefully it was just mine, I happened to be checking something do to a failed print and OMG these screws were 100% loose and I could lift the extruder almost an inch easily.... She's dialed in again now....

Just FYI @Tex Koder - may want to check urs. Both sides all 4 screws were about to fall out if not for the NOT tightened nylon nut on the end. Genius!! I'm assuming it was just mine and a mishap when they built mine.

 

[Tex Koder]

Hopefully it was just mine, I happened to be checking something do to a failed print and OMG these screws were 100% loose and I could lift the extruder almost an inch easily.... She's dialed in again now....

Just FYI @Tex Koder - may want to check urs. Both sides all 4 screws were about to fall out if not for the NOT tightened nylon nut on the end. Genius!! I'm assuming it was just mine and a mishap when they built mine.



View attachment 354664View attachment 354663

Incorrect..
I believe they are supposed to be "loose" / floating...
NOT to be cranked down tight.

This is the Super Cheap way of creating/simulating this device >>

WobbleX

Because the Z rods are SO damn long, it's impossible to guarantee perfect straightness for Every printer, so this is their most economical solution to get rid reduce any wobbles that may occur -on either sides of the Z axis.

This is what I believe-
what Elegoo is trying to achieve.


If I'm wrong, please correct me.

 

[nomis38]

Incorrect..
I believe they are supposed to be "loose" / floating...
NOT to be cranked down tight.

This is the Super Cheap way of creating/simulating this device >>

WobbleX

Because the Z rods are SO damn long, it's impossible to guarantee perfect straightness for Every printer, so this is their most economical solution to get rid of wobbles on both sides of the Z axis.

This is what I believe-
what Elegoo is trying to achieve.


If I'm wrong, please correct me.

Hmmm interesting, Also Ive done 2 "1 was 15 hours" print since and its good to go.

So on yours they are loose as well?

We shall see how mine fairs with them tight but both the other printers Ive owned "1 i still do" you cannot move the extruders at all, not even a few mm. These screws being tightened took out a ton of slop but not all of it by any means.

I may shoot an email to elegoo and see what they say if yours are also loose.

The really odd part if they are supposed to be floating... The black metal they contact with the head of the screw is tapped and threaded... Hmmmm. I'd think it would be smooth and not threaded or there was no point of threading it unless to tighten it down...

 

[Tex Koder]

Hmmm interesting, Also Ive done 2 "1 was 15 hours" print since and its good to go.

So on yours they are loose as well?

We shall see how mine fairs with them tight but both the other printers Ive owned "1 i still do" you cannot move the extruders at all, not even a few mm. These screws being tightened took out a ton of slop but not all of it by any means.

I may shoot an email to elegoo and see what they say if yours are also loose.

The really odd part if they are supposed to be floating... The black metal they contact with the head of the screw is tapped and threaded... Hmmmm.

Yes ,that is correct.

That's one of the first things I've noticed when assembling mine.
I was about to cuss Elegoo out for sending me such sloppy printer (workmanship) til I recalled those devices**.. then realized this may be an easy solution to those.

Because I know these Z rod screws can be a little bent for such long rods and that would cause binding or other issues if the brass support nuts are fastened down super tight against the Z-carriage on the X-gantry.





** cause I had considered installing such enhancement parts to my big printers ,in the future.

 

[nomis38]

Yes ,that is correct.

That's one of the first things I've noticed when assembling mine.
I was about to cuss Elegoo out for sending me such sloppy printer (workmanship) til I recalled those devices**.. then realized this may be an easy solution to those.

Because I know these Z rod screws can be a little bent for such long rods and that would cause binding or other issues if the brass support nuts are fastened down super tight against the Z-carriage on the X-gantry.





** cause I had considered installing such enhancement parts to my big printers ,in the future.

I gotcha.... Well imma leave mine tight and see what happens lol.... I see the logic in it but my Neanderthalic side says "ok me tightens loose"

 

[Tex Koder]

I gotcha.... Well imma leave mine tight and see what happens lol.... I see the logic in it but my Neanderthalic side says "ok me tightens loose"

Watch for binding as your X gantry goes higher and higher up those rod screws..
That's where issues might arise.

Causing your Z stepper motors to skip or overheat..

 

[nomis38]

Watch for binding as your X gantry goes higher and higher up those rod screws..
That's where issues might arise.

Causing your Z stepper motors to skip or overheat..

I gotcha

 

[nomis38]

Watch for binding as your X gantry goes higher and higher up those rod screws..
That's where issues might arise.

Causing your Z stepper motors to skip or overheat..

Ok so after watching that video you posted in more detail and doing some research for my brain to understand I agree these are meant to be loose and are 100% a cheap way to fix the issue of wobble. Kinda cool how sometimes simple and cheap kinda works.

So moving on to my dis-like of my extruder being able to move up and down "which was my hole reason in tightening those bolts I thought were supposed to be to begin with". So these nuts right here "pic below" that make your wheels contact better make a huge difference and have fixed the slop that I hated from day one.

I can still lift my extruder up and down, but its extremely minimal and it was sloppy as heck. All my other printers i was able to get them even less movement which IMO is just better. My BIQU BX you cannot lift the nozzle off the bed easily by pushing the extruder up and thats how I like it. This is not pretty good but not perfect.

 

[Camaroboy383]

100% supposed to be loose.. loose enough to float... There isn't a lead screw in the world that is actually straight.. easiest way to mitigate z banding issues is leaving them loose..

We always went a step further and removed any lead screw retainers and bearings capturing the top of the screw as well..

 

[Tex Koder]

100% supposed to be loose.. loose enough to float... There isn't a lead screw in the world that is actually straight.. easiest way to mitigate z banding issues is leaving them loose..

We always went a step further and removed any lead screw retainers and bearings capturing the top of the screw as well..

Then..
How would you utilize the synchronous belt to sync Dual Z rods setups without the bearings support/retainers (near the top)??

 

[Camaroboy383]

Then..
How would you utilize the synchronous belt to sync Dual Z rods setups without the bearings support/retainers (near the top)??

You don't unfortunately.. but let's be honest.. what's the point of it anyway? Multiple steppers don't need a connecting belt.. that is an old way of doing things.. hardly anyone still manufactures printer in this manner anymore..

The original design back in the day of the synchronized z belts were because there was only one z stepper on one side... Kits were hodge podged by us to include a second lead screw, best solution to running it was a belt..

When daul steppers came out, (mainly due to the infux of large print bed machines) china thought it was a good idea to keep the belt even though it was unnecessary.. they just didn't understand..

 

[Tex Koder]

You don't unfortunately.. but let's be honest.. what's the point of it anyway? Multiple steppers don't need a connecting belt.. that is an old way of doing things.. hardly anyone still manufactures printer in this manner anymore..

The original design back in the day of the synchronized z belts were because there was only one z stepper on one side... Kits were hodge podged by us to include a second lead screw, best solution to running it was a belt..

When daul steppers came out, (mainly due to the infux of large print bed machines) china thought it was a good idea to keep the belt even though it was unnecessary.. they just didn't understand..

To my understanding..
The synchronous Z belt is to prevent any shifting (even ever so slightly) /movements of the Ends of the X Axis beam
,since once the Z Stepper Motors are de-energized...
There's Nothing to prevent either side from sagging -either due to gravity
or someone accidentally pressing down on the X Axis beam while trying to load filament into the extruder (at one end or the other)..


>> Unless there's Z Endstops on BOTH sides of the Z stepper motors to measure evenness Each time when the X Axis beam is homed.

And, not just relying on the ABL probe to measure the bed surface in relations to the extruder...



It would be difficult to guarantee -consistently- that Both sides of Z Axis are still in sync otherwise, without that belt.

Those are just my humble thought/opinions on the matter..

 

[Camaroboy383]

Yeah anycubic used daul z optic end stops..

I would agree, although a properly adjusted axis won't sag.. even being pressed on didn't matter.. for instance, original cr 10 only has one stepper.. those machines stacked layers beautifully once the gantry carriage brackets and rollers were adjusted properly.. mine is old as dirt itself and still stacks gorgeous layers..

I think it can be beneficial in the wrong hands, and non beneficial in the correct hands.. if you know what I mean.. they have to cater to both parties or thier sales are cut in half..

 

[nomis38]

100% supposed to be loose.. loose enough to float... There isn't a lead screw in the world that is actually straight.. easiest way to mitigate z banding issues is leaving them loose..

We always went a step further and removed any lead screw retainers and bearings capturing the top of the screw as well..

This is funny and how my BIQU BX was originally setup on the top bearing, it had screws holding the bearing, but they were left loose and kinda made the bearing floating, and I thought it was bad and tightened them, only for a friend to tell me those are supposed to be loose.

All these loose screws kill me hahaha, but after watching the video that @Tex Koder posted I understand what yall are saying now. I still didnt understand almost 4 years ago when I was told about the top bearing haha.


Hmmm. I should prolly watch more videos and learn things

In my defense though I've never toasted a stepper, and have always been able to get any printer I touch printing flawlessly.

 

[Tex Koder]

This is funny and how my BIQU BX was originally setup on the top bearing, it had screws holding the bearing, but they were left loose and kinda made the bearing floating, and I thought it was bad and tightened them, only for a friend to tell me those are supposed to be loose.

All these loose screws kill me hahaha, but after watching the video that @Tex Koder posted I understand what yall are saying now. I still didnt understand almost 4 years ago when I was told about the top bearing haha.

Hmmm. I should prolly watch more videos and learn things

In my defense though I've never toasted a stepper, and have always been able to get any printer I touch printing flawlessly.