Kraton Help me shim with Mugen E0206 shim set

Jigstick

Well-Known Member
Messages
28
Reaction score
5
Arrma RC's
Is there any alternative to the Mugen E0206 shim set? dam things are sold out everywhere. There has to be another option to shim these diffs. Im trying to order everything I need to so when I pick up my Kraton I can be rocking and rolling.

I found my diff fluids, wheels, tires. I just need to find this shim set and some 3s batteries.
 

Swift518

Well-Known Member
Messages
42
Reaction score
17
Location
Wisconsin
Arrma RC's
KYO96774

These work for the large gears in the diff. I did not shim the smaller gears on mine.
 

WTF MIKE

Well-Known Member
Messages
828
Reaction score
567
Arrma RC's
Is there any alternative to the Mugen E0206 shim set? dam things are sold out everywhere. There has to be another option to shim these diffs. Im trying to order everything I need to so when I pick up my Kraton I can be rocking and rolling.

I found my diff fluids, wheels, tires. I just need to find this shim set and some 3s batteries.
Asc89108 I used these in my outcast
 

Jigstick

Well-Known Member
Messages
28
Reaction score
5
Arrma RC's
Got the part numbers. Just can’t find where to buy them. I wanna do 6S in this Kraton

Been looking for the Mugen and Associated shim kits without much luck. Which gears in the diffs are most crucial to shim for 6s? The large gears or smaller gears
 

RCROD

Well-Known Member
Messages
572
Reaction score
240
Location
Vancouver Island, B.C..
Arrma RC's
, Talion
It is important to shim all gears, if possible. I have done many dry fits all all my diffs (adding, removing, replacing different different thickness shims, etc, and tightening up all 4 bolts each time to find the best possible tight, but still super buttery smooth diffs, as I have an RC dream pile of shims and washers to try.

KYO96772 will shim the OUTSIDE of the front & rear diffs "only", and does not shim any of the gears inside the diff. These are 13x16x.15mm shims and are used to change the gear mesh between the large crown gear (on the outside of the diffs) to the straight cut input gear (13T), which is inside the gearbox. These shims can be added to the left or right side of the diff, when you insert the diff into the gearbox (shims slip over the bearings). Arrma already has one of these installed on the left side, and it is also .15mm thick. For truggies and heavier Arrma's like the Kraton, Talion or Outcast, I recommend adding another .15mm shim, to the left side (crown gear side).

ASC89108 is actually a very useful shim kit, as it includes 3 different size shims, which can all be used on our Arrma's. This diff shim kit includes (4) 13.5x15.8x.3mm shims. These work really well, and I preferred using these compared to the KYO967774. Instead of adding another .15mm shim, I removed the old .15mm shim, and just used one (1) .3mm shim, which installed much easier than using (2) .15mm shims, and I also think it will last longer over time.

Instead of using the Mugen 3.5x12x.2mm shims, there are some other options:
ASC89108 also includes (24) 3.6x12x.2mm shims which can be used to shim the small planet gears on the INSIDE of the diffs. Instead of adding just one shim to 2 sides per the video (which would make the gears run uneven somewhat), I removed all 4 of the stock Arrma .15mm shims, and replaced with (4) .2mm shims, as this added just the right thickness, and kept all of the internal gears aligned the same on all 4 small gears.

*You can also use Serpent 110413 for shimming the 4 small internal planetary gears. It includes (10) 3.5x12x.2mm shims.

ASC89108 also includes (12) 6.1x11x.15mm shims which work perfectly for shimming the steering bellcrank. I have a lot of 6mm I.D. shims, and found these have the perfect inside and outside diameter for shimming the bellcrank. I added (2) two of these on the right side (servo side), as the left side does not need any shims at all.

Unfortunately, the problem is the shims needed for the 2 large internal sun gears. MUGE0206 also includes (6) 5x18x.2mm shims, and I have tried the Serpent 5x15x.3mm shims, and did not like the result. The Serpent shims are maybe too thick (.3mm) and the O.D. is a bit too small. The Mugen shims O.D. is the exact same size as the larger sun gears and fit perfectly. I am not really sure if there are any other options that work as well as the 5x18 Mugen shims?

After countless dry fits, I ended up using (2) of these 5x18x.2mm shims, 1 behind each of the large internal gears on the center diff, but only used (1) of these on both the front and rear diffs. The center diff had a bit more room, probably due to the different machining of the spur gear, compared to the crown gears of the f/r diffs. On the f/r diffs, I put the 5x18 shim behind the large internal gear on the cup side, as this side had more play. Also, it was also much easier to remove the 5x18 shim from the crown gear side, when diff was too tight/notchy, after many dry fits. Later, when I service diffs again, and diffs wear from use, it will be very easy to add another 5x18 shim (install & remove if needed) behind the large gear on the crown gear side. I sure hope Mugen makes more of these kits, as we need their 5x18 shims...

I have not tried the KYO96774 shims, and although the O.D. is a bit larger than the sun gears, the I.D. and thickness is correct, so it sounds like these 5x20x.2mm shims may work?

The one thing I have been surprised at, is nowhere I can find where anyone has shimmed the play on the outdrives. Even after shimming the diffs, and getting then internal mesh just right, I found that I could still move the outdrives back and forth (side to side play), and diffs would tighten up just a bit and even become a bit notchy, when pressing outdrives inwards really hard. Since the inside was perfectly shimmed, I knew it had to be the outdrives needing shimming on the outside. I had some 5x7 shims (KYO96643), and the I.D. & O.D. worked perfectly, as the bearings still needed to slide over these shims. This Kyosho shim kit includes three sizes of thickness (.1, .2, .3mm). The amount of shims and thickness varied that I used, depending if it was a center diff, or f/r diff, and if I used 1 or 2 of the 5x18mm shims inside the diff.

SHIMMING TIP: Do not over shim the internal gears on the inside of the diffs, or over shim the outdrives when shimming the outside of the diffs, as better to have just a bit of play than being too tight and causing many other problems, including strain on drivetrain and more engine heat, etc.
Furthermore, when shimming the outdrives, especially on the diff cup side (as much more difficult to remove the large gear), 1st, add the new bearing (if you are upgrading them), then add the required 5x7 shim(s) on the outdrives, then add the 5x18 shim inside of the diff, then the pin, but do not install the large sun gear, until you have checked the outdrive play and are happy with it. After this, then install the large sun gear.

I hope all this info is clear and helps. I guess I should have posted this in the diff shim thread, but may just post all this on a Kraton and Talion build thread, as I have some other shimming/build tips...
 
Last edited:

Jigstick

Well-Known Member
Messages
28
Reaction score
5
Arrma RC's
Very informative. Thank you very much. I called a hobby shop about 45min away from me and the guy thinks he may have the Mugen E0206 shim kit. he is going to check to make sure and give me a call back. If so, that kit should include all the shims i need to shim the front, center, and rear diffs? under the planetary and satellite gears?

Another local shop as Team Associated 89108 shim kit. But I think this kit is missing the shims for under the planetary gears?
 

bricoletout

Well-Known Member
Messages
26
Reaction score
15
Location
France
Arrma RC's
It is important to shim all gears, if possible. I have done many dry fits all all my diffs (adding, removing, replacing different different thickness shims, etc, and tightening up all 4 bolts each time to find the best possible tight, but still super buttery smooth diffs, as I have an RC dream pile of shims and washers to try.

KYO96772 will shim the OUTSIDE of the front & rear diffs "only", and does not shim any of the gears inside the diff. These are 13x16x.15mm shims and are used to change the gear mesh between the large crown gear (on the outside of the diffs) to the straight cut input gear (13T), which is inside the gearbox. These shims can be added to the left or right side of the diff, when you insert the diff into the gearbox (shims slip over the bearings). Arrma already has one of these installed on the left side, and it is also .15mm thick. For truggies and heavier Arrma's like the Kraton, Talion or Outcast, I recommend adding another .15mm shim, to the left side (crown gear side).

ASC89108 is actually a very useful shim kit, as it includes 3 different size shims, which can all be used on our Arrma's. This diff shim kit includes (4) 13.5x15.8x.3mm shims. These work really well, and I preferred using these compared to the KYO967774. Instead of adding another .15mm shim, I removed the old .15mm shim, and just used one (1) .3mm shim, which installed much easier than using (2) .15mm shims, and I also think it will last longer over time.

Instead of using the Mugen 3.5x12x.2mm shims, there are some other options:
ASC89108 also includes (24) 3.6x12x.2mm shims which can be used to shim the small planet gears on the INSIDE of the diffs. Instead of adding just one shim to 2 sides per the video (which would make the gears run uneven somewhat), I removed all 4 of the stock Arrma .15mm shims, and replaced with (4) .2mm shims, as this added just the right thickness, and kept all of the internal gears aligned the same on all 4 small gears.

*You can also use Serpent 110413 for shimming the 4 small internal planetary gears. It includes (10) 3.5x12x.2mm shims.

ASC89108 also includes (12) 6.1x11x.15mm shims which work perfectly for shimming the steering bellcrank. I have a lot of 6mm I.D. shims, and found these have the perfect inside and outside diameter for shimming the bellcrank. I added (2) two of these on the right side (servo side), as the left side does not need any shims at all.

Unfortunately, the problem is the shims needed for the 2 large internal sun gears. MUGE0206 also includes (6) 5x18x.2mm shims, and I have tried the Serpent 5x15x.3mm shims, and did not like the result. The Serpent shims are maybe too thick (.3mm) and the O.D. is a bit too small. The Mugen shims O.D. is the exact same size as the larger sun gears and fit perfectly. I am not really sure if there are any other options that work as well as the 5x18 Mugen shims?

After countless dry fits, I ended up using (2) of these 5x18x.2mm shims, 1 behind each of the large internal gears on the center diff, but only used (1) of these on both the front and rear diffs. The center diff had a bit more room, probably due to the different machining of the spur gear, compared to the crown gears of the f/r diffs. On the f/r diffs, I put the 5x18 shim behind the large internal gear on the cup side, as this side had more play. Also, it was also much easier to remove the 5x18 shim from the crown gear side, when diff was too tight/notchy, after many dry fits. Later, when I service diffs again, and diffs wear from use, it will be very easy to add another 5x18 shim (install & remove if needed) behind the large gear on the crown gear side. I sure hope Mugen makes more of these kits, as we need their 5x18 shims...

I have not tried the KYO96774 shims, and although the O.D. is a bit larger than the sun gears, the I.D. and thickness is correct, so it sounds like these 5x20x.2mm shims may work?

The one thing I have been surprised at, is nowhere I can find where anyone has shimmed the play on the outdrives. Even after shimming the diffs, and getting then internal mesh just right, I found that I could still move the outdrives back and forth (side to side play), and diffs would tighten up just a bit and even become a bit notchy, when pressing outdrives inwards really hard. Since the inside was perfectly shimmed, I knew it had to be the outdrives needing shimming on the outside. I had some 5x7 shims (KYO96643), and the I.D. & O.D. worked perfectly, as the bearings still needed to slide over these shims. This Kyosho shim kit includes three sizes of thickness (.1, .2, .3mm). The amount of shims and thickness varied that I used, depending if it was a center diff, or f/r diff, and if I used 1 or 2 of the 5x18mm shims inside the diff.

SHIMMING TIP: Do not over shim the internal gears on the inside of the diffs, or over shim the outdrives when shimming the outside of the diffs, as better to have just a bit of play than being too tight and causing many other problems, including strain on drivetrain and more engine heat, etc.
Furthermore, when shimming the outdrives, especially on the diff cup side (as much more difficult to remove the large gear), 1st, add the new bearing (if you are upgrading them), then add the required 5x7 shim(s) on the outdrives, then add the 5x18 shim inside of the diff, then the pin, but do not install the large sun gear, until you have checked the outdrive play and are happy with it. After this, then install the large sun gear.

I hope all this info is clear and helps. I guess I should have posted this in the diff shim thread, but may just post all this on a Kraton and Talion build thread, as I have some other shimming/build tips...
This is the best post so far about the shimming process ! Thank you !!
 

Jigstick

Well-Known Member
Messages
28
Reaction score
5
Arrma RC's
So I got lucky. A local mom and pop hobby shop by me had two sets of the Mugen shims. So I should have everything I need? I ordered some 100,000 weight for the center diff
 

RCROD

Well-Known Member
Messages
572
Reaction score
240
Location
Vancouver Island, B.C..
Arrma RC's
, Talion
This is the best post so far about the shimming process ! Thank you !!
Thanks, I appreciate your comments. After reviewing all the threads and videos on shimming Arrma diffs, I found there still seemed to be some grey areas on what is actually needed, and if the V3 diffs actually needed shimming? I have dry-fitted diffs in kits before and since I have a huge assortment of shims, I decided to spend a lot of time dry-fitting all 3 of my diffs, especially since I'm running 6S only. Being a bit of a perfectionist, and if I'm going to spend the time doing something (shimming diffs), I was definitely going to make sure there were shimmed as best as possible.

I added shims, removed shims, tried different thickness shims, until I got them just right (as tight as possible, but most importantly, still buttery smooth with no binding or notchiness). Since Arrma's are RTR's and dry fitting can be very time consuming (can tighten and take apart each diff at least 4-5 times to get just right), I gather not many people have gone to these extra measures, so I just wanted to let other members know what I think works really well.

Had my Kraton out again yesterday. Since I have shimmed all my diffs, including a new 15T pinion, my temps have barely gone over 120F, and it even sounds smoother now.
 
Last edited:

RCROD

Well-Known Member
Messages
572
Reaction score
240
Location
Vancouver Island, B.C..
Arrma RC's
, Talion
I have to agree with that after shimming my diffs it was so smooth and a lot quieter. It could also be cause of the thicker fluid
Yes, good point. I also thought maybe 2 of my diffs were just a bit low in fluid before shimming them, so just another reason to shim your factory diffs, especially if running 6S. I also changed to a better pinion at the same time, and with a really good spur gear/pinion mesh, this could have also contributed to a smoother sounding drivetrain.
 

Jigstick

Well-Known Member
Messages
28
Reaction score
5
Arrma RC's
I got my Kraton today and tore out the rear diff. The exploded parts diagram in the manual regarding the rear diff does not show this shim on the left. Should I leave it on or take it off?
What type of grease is this on the outside? Can I use multipurpose grease that I use on my tractor zerk fittings?

 
Last edited:

xSUBtRONiKx

Well-Known Member
Messages
50
Reaction score
39
Location
A-town
Arrma RC's

Jigstick

Well-Known Member
Messages
28
Reaction score
5
Arrma RC's
Weird that Arrma wouldn't show that shim on the manual schematic. There is the slightest bit of wiggle room even with that shim in place. But any tighter I think it would bind. While I had the diff out I turned the gears by hand and was actually kind of surprised how smooth it felt. Very fluid with no grit. I think I'm going to try running the truck first before I open up the diffs and shim them.
 

RCROD

Well-Known Member
Messages
572
Reaction score
240
Location
Vancouver Island, B.C..
Arrma RC's
, Talion
I got my Kraton today and tore out the rear diff. The exploded parts diagram in the manual regarding the rear diff does not show this shim on the left. Should I leave it on or take it off?
What type of grease is this on the outside? Can I use multipurpose grease that I use on my tractor zerk fittings?


Arrma installs a 13x16x.15mm shim on the crown gear side only on both the front & rear diffs. For truggies and heavier RC's, it is recommended to usually add another shim to this side. Instead of adding another shim, I removed the stock .15mm shim and replaced with a .3mm shim instead (easier to install one .3mm shim compared to two .15mm shims + the thicker shim should last longer). I removed the center section + both center dogbones to check for smoothness when adding any shims, and felt the .3mm shim was just right in both the front & rear diffs.

Here are 10 options for a 13x16 shim:
https://www.amainhobbies.com/search?s=13x16+shims

Team Associated also has 89108 & 81381 diff shim kits which include 13.5x15.8mm shims and work just as well. The 81381 inlcudes both .2 & .1mm shims in their kit. I used one .30mm shim from 89108 in each of my front/rear diffs. Here's the links:
https://www.amainhobbies.com/team-associated-1-8-scale-diff-shim-kit-40-asc89108/p476508
https://www.amainhobbies.com/team-associated-rc8b3.1-differential-shim-set-asc81381/p661950

I use synthetic high performance white grease between for the crown gear/10T input gear.

Sometimes Arrma does not add enough diff fluid, and if running 6S, I do strongly recommend to open diffs and shim as necessary. The diffs aren't usually too bad, but can use more shimming. If shimmed properly, they will last a long time plus changing diff weights also helps a lot.
 
Last edited:

-Dusty-

Well-Known Member
Messages
296
Reaction score
131
Location
Canada
Arrma RC's
Kraton 6s, Outcast 6s
Team Associated also has 89108 & 81381 diff shim kits which include 13.5x15.8mm shims and work just as well. The 81381 inlcudes both .2 & .1mm shims in their kit. I used one .30mm shim from 89108 in each of my front/rear diffs. Here's the links:
https://www.amainhobbies.com/team-associated-1-8-scale-diff-shim-kit-40-asc89108/p476508
https://www.amainhobbies.com/team-associated-rc8b3.1-differential-shim-set-asc81381/p661950
for the 89108 set, did you remove the stock shim and replace it with this one or did you add it on with the existing shim?
 

RCROD

Well-Known Member
Messages
572
Reaction score
240
Location
Vancouver Island, B.C..
Arrma RC's
, Talion
for the 89108 set, did you remove the stock shim and replace it with this one or did you add it on with the existing shim?
When shimming the crown gear using 13x16 or 13.5x15.8mm shims, keep in mind, these shimming tips are for heavier truggies (Kraton, Outcast, Talion), as buggies and lighter RC's usually do not require the crown gear to be shimmed as tight. On that basis, most members add another .15 (or .1mm) shim + the stock Arrma .15mm shim. However, my suggestion is to add just one .3mm shim from ASC89108 diff shim set, instead of two .15mm shims. It is much easier to put diffs back into the gearbox with one thicker shim instead of two thinner shims and the thicker shim should also be more durable over time. I even had the gearbox completely out of the vehicle to check for best shimming and found the .3mm shim worked excellent. I hope this answers your question.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
JGaff Arrma 6s BLX 2
Nookiemonster Arrma 4x4 5
T Arrma 6s BLX 18
J Arrma 6s BLX 7
Top