Can you spot any problems here?

[dure16]

I'm having some weird issues and am trying to narrow down the cause. I'm still learning motors, so hopefully the experts here can tell if there are any signs of a problem in the pictures below.

First problem: when I hit full throttle from a stop, there's a weird hesitation before the car takes off. Changing "punch" and "start power" settings don't seem to improve or worsen the problem.
Second problem: the motor is getting hot faster than I think it should be. 180F cut off in 5 minutes.
Both problems exist regardless of whether the sensor cable is connected.

DBXLE 2.0 geared 13/50 for ~55mph
Castle 2028 1100kv w/ 2 fans
XLX2
Hoovo 9.6ah 130C 4S (2) w/ QS8

 

[gotnitro]

Looks can be deceiving with motors. If you’ve already heated it up to where it lost efficiency, that’s when you start to see temps rising faster than normal. Gear back down and run it outside of 85 degree temps like it is here. Might just simply be ambient temps.

 

[Moirae]

I don't know why it would be heating up so fast but the hesitation makes me think those poop hovoo lipo struggling to keep up. I would expect lowering the punch and start power would help with that though.

 

[dure16]

Looks can be deceiving with motors. If you’ve already heated it up to where it lost efficiency, that’s when you start to see temps rising faster than normal. Gear back down and run it outside of 85 degree temps like it is here. Might just simply be ambient temps.

It hasn't exceeded the 180F automatic cutoff. Good point about the ambient temps though.

 

[Johnny b]

Yeah, I can't understand or read your graph cuz I'm on second margarita.

 

[gotnitro]

Yeah, I can't understand or read your graph cuz I'm on second margarita.

Cheap date.

 

[dure16]

I don't know why it would be heating up so fast but the hesitation makes me think those poop hovoo lipo struggling to keep up. I would expect lowering the punch and start power would help with that though.

Yeah maybe I need some better batteries, unfortunately. These batteries have been great in my Outcast though with a Max5/56113.

 

[SrC]

I'm having some weird issues and am trying to narrow down the cause. I'm still learning motors, so hopefully the experts here can tell if there are any signs of a problem in the pictures below.

First problem: when I hit full throttle from a stop, there's a weird hesitation before the car takes off. Changing "punch" and "start power" settings don't seem to improve or worsen the problem.
Second problem: the motor is getting hot faster than I think it should be. 180F cut off in 5 minutes.
Both problems exist regardless of whether the sensor cable is connected.

DBXLE 2.0 geared 13/50 for ~55mph
Castle 2028 1100kv w/ 2 fans
XLX2
Hoovo 9.6ah 130C 4S (2) w/ QS8


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I would check and makes sure the Armature is properly shimmed. If the Hall effect Sensors have too much of an air gap from the Rotor, 1+ mm, this can also affect performance.
Motor looks clean , Armature is not in the best perfect condition. But doesn't look tragic. Should still perform fine as is.
I say it is Not a lipo spec issue at all. Assuming you checked all the cells, and they are obviously fine.

 

[Moirae]

I would check and makes sure the Armature is properly shimmed. If the Hall effect Sensors have too much of an air gap from the Rotor, 1+ mm, this can also affect performance.
Motor looks clean , Armature is not in the best perfect condition. But doesn't look tragic. Should still perform fine as is.
I say it is Not a lipo spec issue at all. Assuming you checked all the cells, and they are obviously fine.

Every instance of hesitation with a full throttle pull i've ever had has been a lipo/punch/lvc problem. Not saying thats the case here but you never know. You can also clearly see on his data log that the voltage line is dropping below the lvc line.

 

[SrC]

Could be a bad or failing ESC. That simple. Could even a Bad Motor Sensor board. They are known to fail. It's a thing.
So try running it without a Sensor lead, in Non Sensored mode. Then see what happens.
Have you tried an ESC reset? Then recalibrate it.
What I would do next, if you haven't already.
What rig is this setup being used for?
Bashing or speed running?

 

[dure16]

I would check and makes sure the Armature is properly shimmed. If the Hall effect Sensors have too much of an air gap from the Rotor, 1+ mm, this can also affect performance.

Can you please expand on this a little? I don't understand.

Could be a bad or failing ESC. That simple. Could even a Bad Motor Sensor board. They are known to fail. It's a thing.
So try running it without a Sensor lead, in Non Sensored mode. Then see what happens.
Have you tried an ESC reset? Then recalibrate it.
What I would do next, if you haven't already.
What rig is this setup being used for?
Bashing or speed running?

The problems persist with the sensor cable unplugged.
Yes I reset and recalibrated the ESC.
Casual bashing. Geared pretty conservatively.

Every instance of hesitation with a full throttle pull i've ever had has been a lipo/punch/lvc problem. Not saying thats the case here but you never know. You can also clearly see on his data log that the voltage line is dropping below the lvc line.

I should turn start power down and punch control up to lighten the battery load, right?

 

[Moirae]

Can you please expand on this a little? I don't understand.

The problems persist with the sensor cable unplugged.
Yes I reset and recalibrated the ESC.
Casual bashing. Geared pretty conservatively.

I should turn start power down and punch control up to lighten the battery load, right?

yep! I don't know what you have lvc set to but you could also lower it a little. Thats what I did to get around the problem for my worse lipos. Something like 3.4v cut off haha.

 

[SrC]

Sensored Motors need a very small air gap between th Rotor and Hall effect sensors. Within less than 1 mm, no more, of an air gap for proper sensor control operation. So shimming the Rotor is important.

>>>>However since you already tried it in sensorless mode, with no change, while running a very conservative pinion, perhpaps the ESC is to blame???
What condition are the Motor BB's in?? Are they possibly worn.

I am leaning more towards the ESC as the issue.... Maybe even a radio trigger potentiometer issue.
What radio are you running?

 

[gotnitro]

It hasn't exceeded the 180F automatic cutoff. Good point about the ambient temps though.

Not all motors are made the same, you could’ve gotten fkd in the neodymium magnet dept. like I have in the past.

You know all those “I never got it over that temp” threads where the manufacturer won’t warrantee it? I’ve been past warranty with manufacturers for many moons. Not worth the wait when I can buy now. You know that itch!

 

[Moirae]

man i have my castle combos set to cutoff at 160f

 

[Hector_Fisher]

I had a similar issue before my max8 went poof. I was having a similar issue on my max10 until u discovered that the motor wires didn't have a good solder to the bullet connectors due to wire coating.

Hopefully you get that sorted out.

 

[dure16]

Sensored Motors need a very small air gap between th Rotor and Hall effect sensors. Within less than 1 mm, no more, of an air gap for proper sensor control operation. So shimming the Rotor is important.

>>>>However since you already tried it in sensorless mode, with no change, while running a very conservative pinion, perhpaps the ESC is to blame???
What condition are the Motor BB's in?? Are they possibly worn.

I am leaning more towards the ESC as the issue.... Maybe even a radio trigger potentiometer issue.
What radio are you running?

Thanks for explaining the motor shims. Motor bearings are clean and turn smoothly. I use a DX5C.

 

[dure16]

man i have my castle combos set to cutoff at 160f

Castle recommends 180F

 

[SrC]

Remember that what we read with a temp gun Externally is always lower than the actual Internal temp reading of the Thermister on the Sensor Board.
Sustained Internal temps of 212F+ usually ruins the rotor.
Going with a conservative internal 160F cut off makes sense.