Difference between v1&v2 Firma 160?

[KnowAir]

Got my v1 K8S last week. It came with the v1 Firma 160 of course, 4985 1250kv w/8mm shaft and 23/47 gearing. This is the same gearing as the v2 rtr exb's right? I wasn't particulary impressed by the speed or acceleration, nor was I expecting to be. I had already bought v2 8s rtr takeoffs in anticipation of getting a roller. That didn't pan out, but I have this v2 stuff. So I dropped the 5687 1100kv in, along with a 26t pinion. It's definitely got more acceleration, but kinda flat. My question is, am I missing some power with the v1 Firma 160? I bumped the punch up to 4, left timing at zero. Would the v2 Firma 160 be any better? Any tips?

 

[Hector_Fisher]

From the K4s/O4s thread discussion earlier today, the v2 120a ESC was listed as having better punch and "driving feel" or responsiveness. I looked around and found the same terminology for the v2 160a ESC on the v2 K8s product page on HH's website as well:

Also, the 120a V2 ESC has mentions of running cooler

I suspect this may also apply to the v2 160a ESC? Not sure what they mean by "better driving feel", maybe they meant better responsiveness like on the v2 120a? After having looked deeper into this, I suspect the v2 ESC's mainly just include some improvements and/or efficiency over the OG version. So maybe a different throttle profile and/or updates to how much punch each setting level has?

 

[KnowAir]

From the K4s/O4s thread discussion earlier today, the v2 120a ESC was listed as having better punch and "driving feel" or responsiveness. I looked around and found the same terminology for the v2 160a ESC on the v2 K8s product page on HH's website as well:
View attachment 334763
Also, the 120a V2 ESC has mentions of running cooler
View attachment 334769
I suspect this may also apply to the v2 160a ESC? Not sure what they mean by "better driving feel", maybe they meant better responsiveness like on the v2 120a? After having looked deeper into this, I suspect the v2 ESC's mainly just include some improvements and/or efficiency over the OG version. So maybe a different throttle profile and/or updates to how much punch each setting level has?

Thanks, I guess I should just go ahead try it. I was being lazy, didn't feel like swapping the connectors. I'll have to do it at some point anyways. I feel like that's just what it's missing too, no real giddyup. I still have one more level of punch it can go up. Running the K8 back to back with my K6 XL, the 6s really is way more responsive. Vxl8s with TC 4274 on 6s.
Been a few weeks since I drove my brother's G1 Max6/1100 equipped O8S, but I really think it had quite a bit more go to it. Maybe the Spektrum stuff is weaker?

 

[RCbuzz]

I feel like the Max6 and Spekrum 160 are quite similar. I really like both ESC's. I am guessing that 1100kV motor has a lot to do with it. Solid Motor.

That being said have you tried max punch? I wonder how it feels. Also, what batteries are you running? That makes a difference too.

@Xjeepguy has experience with well... pretty much every ESC ever made. But specifically he commented on how good the feel was on the 8S V2 motor and ESC.

 

[Xjeepguy]

I feel like the Max6 and Spekrum 160 are quite similar. I really like both ESC's. I am guessing that 1100kV motor has a lot to do with it. Solid Motor.

That being said have you tried max punch? I wonder how it feels. Also, what batteries are you running? That makes a difference too.

@Xjeepguy has experience with well... pretty much every ESC ever made. But specifically he commented on how good the feel was on the 8S V2 motor and ESC.

Yeah, I’m extremely happy with it. They look similar on the outside, but I’m pretty sure the programming at least is different. The V2 is much smoother at low speeds, and doesn’t surge like the V1 did. It’s a really nice ESC.

 

[KnowAir]

I feel like the Max6 and Spekrum 160 are quite similar. I really like both ESC's.

I was planning on them being very similar, and perhaps they are. I need to spend more time ruuning it I think, try some different settings and see. I have a G1 Max6 in my Xmaxx with the stock TRX motor, runs great. Perhaps I underestimated how the weight of the K8 would effect performance?

Yeah, I’m extremely happy with it. They look similar on the outside, but I’m pretty sure the programming at least is different. The V2 is much smoother at low speeds, and doesn’t surge like the V1 did. It’s a really nice ESC.

Interesting, my K8 v1 as delivered is silky smooth as far as power delivery, both the stock Firma 1250 and v2 1100 I put in. Just not very punchy. Even with the 23t pinion the Firma 1250 has no noticeable cogging.

 

[RCbuzz]

I was planning on them being very similar, and perhaps they are. I need to spend more time ruuning it I think, try some different settings and see. I have a G1 Max6 in my Xmaxx with the stock TRX motor, runs great. Perhaps I underestimated how the weight of the K8 would effect performance?

Interesting, my K8 v1 as delivered is silky smooth as far as power delivery, both the stock Firma 1250 and v2 1100 I put in. Just not very punchy. Even with the 23t pinion the Firma 1250 has no noticeable cogging.

When I first got my 8s I noticed the front tires unloading more than I liked (surprising with 20mil fluid)... Turns out, It was pretty empty, I topped it off with an earplug and noticed a huge difference in performance.

How are your batteries? Low "C" or batteries with heavy voltage sag can also effect the punchiness.

 

[Radiocontrolsoul]

Ear plugs definitely livin’ things up

 

[KnowAir]

When I first got my 8s I noticed the front tires unloading more than I liked (surprising with 20mil fluid)... Turns out, It was pretty empty, I topped it off with an earplug and noticed a huge difference in performance.

How are your batteries? Low "C" or batteries with heavy voltage sag can also effect the punchiness.

I can see the front tires unloading quite a bit on the truck. No doubt all the diffs are less than full. I've yet to open a full diff on any rtr. I can live without the wheelies. So far I've only used Zeee 7200 120c batteries in it. Should have plenty of capacity. Heck my brother is using Spektrum 5000 100c, short on run time but plenty of punch. I have a set of them too. They're "okay" at best IMO.
I guess I'll have to max out the punch, maybe try adding some timing advance and see if it helps. I normally run all my stuff as delivered out of the box with regards to esc settings. If turning things up on the v1 doesn't it, I'll through the v2 Firma 160 in.
Thanks guys.

 

[Matt05]

What are you trying to save the v2 esc for? I’d sell both ESCs and grab a max5, but I know that’s not your style.

 

[KnowAir]

What are you trying to save the v2 esc for? I’d sell both ESCs and grab a max5, but I know that’s not your style.

.. Nothing now that you mention.
Truthfully, cuz, lazy!! The v1 was already installed and has 8.4v BEC. I figured their wouldn't be much difference between v1 and v2.What I'm confused by is why my brother's O8S runs so good on the G1 Max6 combo. The O8S EXB can't be much if any lighter than a v1 K8S? He's running 27/47 mod1 gears. Motor got warm when I "test drove" it to bring his fully charged Spektrum batts down off of full charge. We got rained out one Sunday, he asked me to run the batteries down. No motor fan either.
Yes, G2 Max5 is what I really want. I get it now..
10-12s is what these things really need I think. That would lower the amp draw/needs considerably with these heavyweights I think. A couple budget 6s bricks could easily give the run time and power of high dollar 4s 9-10ah batteries I suspect.

 

[Dales396lt4]

I have both system's in K8s v1, one in an rtr (new 1100kv and old 160ESC) and one in v1EXB (New 160 ESC and new 1100kv) both are geared 39/27. I think that the 1100kv motor just needs more gear. I know there will be more heat but that is why God made fans. Earplugs are a must for performance, you are losing a lot of power out the front.

 

[KnowAir]

I have both system's in K8s v1, one in an rtr (new 1100kv and old 160ESC) and one in v1EXB (New 160 ESC and new 1100kv) both are geared 39/27. I think that the 1100kv motor just needs more gear. I know there will be more heat but that is why God made fans. Earplugs are a must for performance, you are losing a lot of power out the front.

I need more radio time, and tweaking I think. I'd love to just bump everything up in size as most do. Reality is, I'm too broke, LOL. Plus I don't want to go down the upgrade rabbit hole. Like I said, my brother's O8S has plenty of speed/acceleration. I haven't had a chance to run my K8 against it to "gauge" yet. I don't mind bleeding off some power to the front wheels if that's what it takes to keep the nose down. We run on a track exclusively so having the front wheels in the air doesn't really work out well. I know for a fact that my brother hasn't changed anything on his O8S, everything is "as delivered" in terms of diff and shock fluids. Esc settings too. I'm hoping to get at least a couple good rips in before everything freezes up for the winter. Thus far all I've been able to do with the K8 is run around on a frozen, slick track, and up/down the driveway. I did however pull my ramp out for a bit.

 

[Dales396lt4]

I spent a lot of time getting these two set up to run like I wanted them too. The EXB is just a backup Rig and hangs on the wall must of the time. Things I do not like about the new 160 ESC. I have not been able to plug in and tune it like the old ESC. I'm now working on my O8s EXB to be like my RTR O8s. Went out for a test run with the New 160 ESC & new 1100kv geared 23/47 and open center Diff. I was VERY disappointed with how it ran. So, I need to get a 39/27 and earplugs. Both of the EXB's are wall hangers for now. It's getting cold here too. This morning was 45 degrees.

 

[RCbuzz]

Filling my center diff made a huge difference, when the power bleeds off to the front wheels that could be the "lack of punch" you are feeling. Throttle control will help with the wheelies but the 8S Kraton is a big rig, it's a big easier to keep the wheels down anyhow.

Good luck! Looks like you are already having a great time with this RC!

 

[KnowAir]

I admit, I didn't even open the diffs. I know they're pretty much always underfilled from the factory but I have never had a problem from under filled. No oil would be my only real concern. We've had snow here a couple times, the ground has froze/thawed a few times too. I run rc's all year, this K8 however, I think I'm going to keep out of the snow. Maybe I'll go deeper with it over the winter and give the center diff a "topping off" with an ear plug. Not sure.
I have an old Turnigy branded programming card that works on everything I've tried thus far, including v1 and v2 Firma esc's. I can't perform any "smart" tasks or firmware updates of course but, I can access all the usual programming options with it. Might just be the best $10 I ever spent on rc stuff.

Filling my center diff made a huge difference, when the power bleeds off to the front wheels that could be the "lack of punch" you are feeling. Throttle control will help with the wheelies but the 8S Kraton is a big rig, it's a big easier to keep the wheels down anyhow.

Good luck! Looks like you are already having a great time with this RC!

For sure on the fun!! I just wish the weather were more cooperative!!
I have used ear plugs in 6s center diffs with satisfaction, I can imagine it's even more critical with the bigger scale rigs. Took a day off yesterday to be home with my wife, she's got the 'rona. Doing well though. I didn't get outside soon enough and the frozen track turned to mud once the sun got on it. So, I burned as much charge off the batteries as I can stomach going up/down the driveway.. boring!! Still ended up discharging them on the charger.. I do that to myself all the time!! So excited to get out and do some bashing, only to loose daylight or some other circumstance that leaves me with charged batteries to deal with..

 

[KnowAir]

I guess I got a bad set of batteries. My brother came out today, we raced our O8S and K8S up and down the driveway and around the yard. My K8S was falling flat on it's face after just a couple full throttle pulls. Hitting lvc at times just going flat, like half power others.. huh, these are 1 month old Zeee 7200 120c. I put a set of Spektrum 5000 100c in, bam!! Hauls ass on those batteries, no power loss either. I sent Zeee an email, see what they have to offer. I've had good luck with their batteries in the past. But yeah, the v1 160 Firma, 5687 Firma, on 26t pinion has plenty of speed and power with decent batteries!! About dead even with the O8S on Max6/1100, 27t pinion.

 

[RCbuzz]

I guess I got a bad set of batteries. My brother came out today, we raced our O8S and K8S up and down the driveway and around the yard. My K8S was falling flat on it's face after just a couple full throttle pulls. Hitting lvc at times just going flat, like half power others.. huh, these are 1 month old Zeee 7200 120c. I put a set of Spektrum 5000 100c in, bam!! Hauls ass on those batteries, no power loss either. I sent Zeee an email, see what they have to offer. I've had good luck with their batteries in the past. But yeah, the v1 160 Firma, 5687 Firma, on 26t pinion has plenty of speed and power with decent batteries!! About dead even with the O8S on Max6/1100, 27t pinion.

Yea!! Glad you found out what it was! Seems hit or miss with some brands, the lower "actual C batts" usually get dedicated for low power RC's .

I would throw a cell voltage tester on there after the run as well, might have a bad cell.

What Turnigy ESC programmer you using?

 

[KnowAir]

Yea!! Glad you found out what it was! Seems hit or miss with some brands, the lower "actual C batts" usually get dedicated for low power RC's .

I would throw a cell voltage tester on there after the run as well, might have a bad cell.

What Turnigy ESC programmer you using?

Yeah, I know the C rating games..Zeee is a budget brand but I've used them for years. This is the first bad set I've gotten from them. They seemed fine in my Xmaxx. Today was the first time I've really worked them by holding full throttle for longer than a second or two.. i don't have a cell checker but I did take them out and plug the balance leads into my Hota S6, they were all even, 3.9v per cell.. I recharged and tried them again, same outcome.
I use this card.

 

[cazrack]

I spent a lot of time getting these two set up to run like I wanted them too. The EXB is just a backup Rig and hangs on the wall must of the time. Things I do not like about the new 160 ESC. I have not been able to plug in and tune it like the old ESC. I'm now working on my O8s EXB to be like my RTR O8s. Went out for a test run with the New 160 ESC & new 1100kv geared 23/47 and open center Diff. I was VERY disappointed with how it ran. So, I need to get a 39/27 and earplugs. Both of the EXB's are wall hangers for now. It's getting cold here too. This morning was 45 degrees.

Too cold?

45 °Fahrenheit = 7.22 °Celsius

Today its -12 °Celsius here