Kraton Horizon Hobby

[Frumba57]

From my more experienced RC’er. Question. What is the relationship under the Horizon hobby umbrella of Arrma and Losi?

Obviously they use the same electronics to include remotes in most cases.

I’ve found Losi loves going for realistic designs with liscense.

But is it a Lexus v Toyota type relationship? Are the parts made or designed by the same firm?

Or is it just plastic and metal dealers choice it’s all the same?

 

[GraniteFox]

Horizon owns both comanies and brands including spektrum & Axial. I'm sure Arrma and Losi have input on design and rollouts but Horizon makes the ultimate decisions. Losi is more scale on their genral purpoess rc line and also are the TLR racing division. I would guess Losi has the most influence over their racing line. Arrma is more everyday bash brand. It would not make sense for them to design and release competing type designs. Outside of the electronics their designs are not interchangable and very little crossover. Audi is a VW with fancy paint and features.......but is still a VW. Same with Lexus/Toyota......Ford/Lincoln........Chevy/Cadillac.......Nissan/Infinity.......Honda/Acura...etc

 

[Frumba57]

Horizon owns both comanies and brands including spektrum & Axial. I'm sure Arrma and Losi have input on design and rollouts but Horizon makes the ultimate decisions. Losi is more scale on their genral purpoess rc line and also are the TLR racing division. I would guess Losi has the most influence over their racing line. Arrma is more everyday bash brand. It would not make sense for them to design and release competing type designs. Outside of the electronics their designs are not interchangable and very little crossover. Audi is a VW with fancy paint and features.......but is still a VW. Same with Lexus/Toyota......Ford/Lincoln........Chevy/Cadillac.......Nissan/Infinity.......Honda/Acura...etc

Thank you for such a quick reply. To summarize you are saying Losi is Lincoln/Lexus/Infinity And Arrma is Ford/Toyota/Nissan?

Or is Horizon Lexus
Losi Camry
Arrma Corolla

See what I did there?

 

[parcou]

From my more experienced RC’er. Question. What is the relationship under the Horizon hobby umbrella of Arrma and Losi?

Obviously they use the same electronics to include remotes in most cases.

I’ve found Losi loves going for realistic designs with liscense.

But is it a Lexus v Toyota type relationship? Are the parts made or designed by the same firm?

Or is it just plastic and metal dealers choice it’s all the same?

I'm no vet, only 4yrs in, but I have a good collection of 3S & 6S Arrma and Losi to DB, U4 and DBXL-E 2.0

I like Losi's design, but what I can "feel" from old-school vets who had Losi before HH took it is that the parts were better. Losi built a better rig compared to HH takeover...my sense of reading.

Every Losi I have owned up to the DBXL-E, as the exception, has soft gears, outdrives, etc., something I had to upgrade to get it to drive/bash right to the point I wanted to sell it off. I've paid and fixed the part, and now they perform with love and no issues. For me, it was the metal parts, although I replaced the plastic chassis braces and obvious stuff like that.

Regarding Arrma rigs, I have been good with the stock parts "if." I played by the rules...not putting on larger tires, upping the pinion, etc, but playing with common sense. I created all my Arrma issues and, in turn, returned to what it should have been in most cases.

All their electronics have been good for me. However, the older Spectrum 150A ESC has been my only issue. Personally, I like the HW ESC, which does not limit ESC options, so I change out on some rigs. The motors have been suitable if you are happy with that level, never lost a motor.

My $0.02 as a non-vet with experiences with Arrma and Losi.

I see them more like Ford-Chevy and not the premium like a Lexus or Toyota.

 

[Tex Koder]

Thank you for such a quick reply. To summarize you are saying Losi is Lincoln/Lexus/Infinity And Arrma is Ford/Toyota/Nissan?

Or is Horizon Lexus
Losi Camry
Arrma Corolla

See what I did there?

I look at Arrma more like BMW 3-series ;
You see them at both ends of the extreme >> being driven around as Taxis and run-abouts, but also you see them at the level of M3 's high performance running off the exact same chassis.. directly from the manufacturer.
(With a lot of tuned and upgraded OEM Performance parts from the factory ,of course.)

They're offered in Plenty of variety and Loads of options / configurations.

BMWs are highly modifiable with a Huge after market support -can be made ultra High performance but Needs regular & constant maintenance.


Otherwise they'll breakdown pretty quickly.

 

[Bustedaw11]

I'm no vet, only 4yrs in, but I have a good collection of 3S & 6S Arrma and Losi to DB, U4 and DBXL-E 2.0

I like Losi's design, but what I can "feel" from old-school vets who had Losi before HH took it is that the parts were better. Losi built a better rig compared to HH takeover...my sense of reading.

Every Losi I have owned up to the DBXL-E, as the exception, has soft gears, outdrives, etc., something I had to upgrade to get it to drive/bash right to the point I wanted to sell it off. I've paid and fixed the part, and now they perform with love and no issues. For me, it was the metal parts, although I replaced the plastic chassis braces and obvious stuff like that.

Regarding Arrma rigs, I have been good with the stock parts "if." I played by the rules...not putting on larger tires, upping the pinion, etc, but playing with common sense. I created all my Arrma issues and, in turn, returned to what it should have been in most cases.

All their electronics have been good for me. However, the older Spectrum 150A ESC has been my only issue. Personally, I like the HW ESC, which does not limit ESC options, so I change out on some rigs. The motors have been suitable if you are happy with that level, never lost a motor.

My $0.02 as a non-vet with experiences with Arrma and Losi.

I see them more like Ford-Chevy and not the premium like a Lexus or Toyota.

Old losi is like old Team associated..They're not the same at all anymore.

Basically every model sold was a racing rig back in the day. Even the rtr's were high quality. They didn't sell "bashers". It wasn't really a thing then like it is now.

Team associated was a made in usa brand and proud of thier products. Now they will sling out China junk like everyone else and use thier name to make it seem great.

If you look at an associated tc4 and then a thunder tigered China associated Apex of today you'll see instantly what I mean. The Apex looks like a toy in comparison. This is a 20 year old usa made car vs now. Things should have gotten better, not cheaper.
Even the low end plastic in the rtr's were composite. If you've never seen the plastic that used to be used you should.
It was some good stuff. The plastic used today feels like Tupperware in comparison. Let alone if you were to compare the graphite composite plastics used in all the racing rigs and or upgrade parts. That stuff made for some amazing rigs back then.

 

[Tex Koder]

Old losi is like old Team associated..They're not the same at all anymore.

Basically every model sold was a racing rig back in the day. Even the rtr's were high quality. They didn't sell "bashers". It wasn't really a thing then like it is now.

Team associated was a made in usa brand and proud of thier products. Now they will sling out China junk like everyone else and use thier name to make it seem great.

Agreed.

If you look at an associated tc4 and then a thunder tigered China associated Apex of today you'll see instantly what I mean. The Apex looks like a toy in comparison. This is a 20 year old usa made car vs now. Things should have gotten better, not cheaper.
Even the low end plastic in the rtr's were composite. If you've never seen the plastic that used to be used you should.
It was some good stuff. The plastic used today feels like Tupperware in comparison. Let alone if you were to compare the graphite composite plastics used in all the racing rigs and or upgrade parts. That stuff made for some amazing rigs back then.

View attachment 355180

View attachment 355181

The 'plastics' were mostly fiber re-enforced nylon back in the day..

 

[Bustedaw11]

Agreed.



The 'plastics' were mostly fiber re-enforced nylon back in the day..

Correct! Even the standard plastic was reinforced. If you had a broken part and took a lighter to it- it would mushroom out and you could see all the fibers separate.
No such thing anymore.

That level of standard quality isn't a thing anymore.

 

[parcou]

Gents that was a massive education for me....what I felt to be true glad to see it posted

 

[Shadows]

Traxxas is McDonald's. ARRMA is Burger King. Build it your way. With Traxxas, it's have it our way and STAY that way.

 

[razorrc]

IMO, but I'm pretty sure I'm right...

TLR = racing brand
Arrma = bashing brand
Axial = crawling brand
Losi = everything else.

The Losi brand has changed over time. They used to be RTR versions of the TLR stuff to differentiate the race brand from the RTR versions, but now is basically a catch-all for every surface vehicle that doesn't fit anywhere else. That includes large scale, gas and nitro, drag racing, on-road, realistic branded vehicles, mini-scale, etc. etc. Anything that doesn't fit in the other brands goes under the Losi brand.

Losi is primarily licensed vehicles now, because that is the area that is selling well.

 

[morrjr71]

IMO, but I'm pretty sure I'm right...

TLR = racing brand
Arrma = bashing brand
Axial = crawling brand
Losi = everything else.

I have to agree with your assessment: I have three Axial crawlers, and the design is so much better than my three Traxxas crawlers. I have a Losi Baja Rey, which fills the slot for a Baja truck nicely.

Here is my favorite Axial crawler.

 

[parcou]

Razor makes sense on that one.

All my on-road scale cars, like the '69 Camero, are Losi scale cars. Most all the others I found coming into the hobby that look damn good as scale were Vaterra... Who took them over? I had to get all the cool Vaterra 1/10 cars off eBay or FB Market.