Kraton Motor Swap in Kraton

[justpassedu]

So Vanning, you find the CC 2200 setup faster than the stock V2 Kraton stuff?

I sent a bunch of stuff back for warranty, and it looks like it's all being replaced (Kraton V1 ESC, motor, servo, wing mount)..

I also sent back the motor and ESC form my Vorza...and it appears i'm getting the ELS-6S ESC (rebadged CC MM2) and the Flux Tork 2200 motor.

I'm going to be honest, i haven't had much luck with CC stuff in the past.....but I'm debating running it in either my Kraton or Typhon.

Swerny the Castle 2200kv motor is faster top speed than stock as it has a higher Kv , more Kv higher top end , less kv would produce more torque . I personally have been using Castle since the day the company was founded and know body really knew about them as they only advertised in the back of a few rc car magizines. I have never had a problem with anything from them , maybe one time way back i had used to long of screws in 1 of there motors and damaged it and they had went out of there way to replace it for free even though it was my mistake. I have not had to use there customer service in years so i am hoping it is still good but they have some great products and there motors are top notch quality. Your flux tork is also basically a re-branded castle motor i believe , same as there 2200kv. You could also tune that esc via pc with the program software , it may be a bit limited as castle doesn't release every option for the hpi rebrand's or at least they used to do it this way.

 

[Vanning]

Higher KV's spin faster, lower KV's have more torque. You get more heat with less torque but I know the CC motors and ESC's are extremely efficient. The 2200kv may run cooler than the stock motor just from using better quality materials thought the motor. If it's 95% efficient and stock is 85% it should be faster and stay cool enough. IDK It's all give and take. On 6S it does ok with heat on 12 tooth, the 14 will probably just get by . I have to use a fan and heatsink and I stay at 140 F it seems. on 4S and 5S this setup will be good to go. I've been using CC for as long as I can remember.....I've never had a problem with anything ever. I used their ESC's in many RC helicopters also. I had a few Align electric helis. All my RC cars have CC ESC's in them.

I'll be running my 2200KV more when I get back...It's plenty fast with a 12 tooth pinion. I'll go to a 14 tooth and check heat. It's also going to be good on 4S and 5S. I feel I'll just stick to 6S so I'm just going to put in the Leo 1730 and get some bigger pinions to see how I like it.

I have only run my Kraton about 4 times so far....I'm going to shim all the diffs and harden the out drives. I should have shimmed the diffs already but I'll get around to it. I think it's 100% a good idea, I'm not sure why there are no shims behind the pins ???? I would think there would be. I'll harden the cups also but I'll use oil rather than water. Once I finish with the diffs....I'll start looking to bolt up the Leopard motor....I got the bullet connectors and some silicon wire ordered,

 

[justpassedu]

Higher KV's spin faster, lower KV's have more torque. You get more heat with less torque but I know the CC motors and ESC's are extremely efficient. The 2200kv may run cooler than the stock motor just from using better quality materials thought the motor. If it's 95% efficient and stock is 85% it should be faster and stay cool enough. IDK It's all give and take. On 6S it does ok with heat on 12 tooth, the 14 will probably just get by . I have to use a fan and heatsink and I stay at 140 F it seems. on 4S and 5S this setup will be good to go. I've been using CC for as long as I can remember.....I've never had a problem with anything ever. I used their ESC's in many RC helicopters also. I had a few Align electric helis. All my RC cars have CC ESC's in them.

I'll be running my 2200KV more when I get back...It's plenty fast with a 12 tooth pinion. I'll go to a 14 tooth and check heat. It's also going to be good on 4S and 5S.

I have only run my Kraton about 4 times so far....I'm going to shim all the diffs and harden the out drives. I should have shimmed the diffs already but I'll get around to it. I think it's 100% a good idea, I'm not sure why there are no shims behind the pins ???? I would think there would be. I'll harden the cups also but I'll use oil rather than water. Once I finish with the diffs....I'll start looking to bolt up the Leopard motor....I got the bullet connectors and some silicon wire ordered,

How do you harden the out drives and cups ? I have never done that , I did break open all my diffs and they did not seem to need any shims at all but than again i have the newer version of the Kraton so its quite possible they updated it as mine had shims. I did throw some 100k in my center diff and left the front and rear stock for now. I also threw a 16t pinion in mine i had laying around. The newer Kraton came with a optional 15t i believe so i went up 1 tooth. I agree Castle is great , i have always used them in everything i have owned. This time around for a 1st in my life i am bought a hobywing max8 esc to try , i keep hearing great things about them and i think they look pretty cool plus programming it seems easier than castle , I chose not to go with a hobbywing motor though as i'd like to try the stock motor and than move up to possibly a leopard like you but i'd really like to find a deal on a castle 1717 and run that in the future as it stays cool all day even with aggressive gearing.

 

[Vanning]

I'm becoming a big fan of Hobbywing also. One day I will try one out. Great choice on the Max8....I agree. Their web page is awesome and I like what I'm hearing about them also. I was always good with Castle so they had my business for years. Lately I've been trying new things and enjoying it all.

I have the brand new Kraton also and I feel that's why I had the issues with the front diff binding from the dog bones. I think Arrma changed the front steering knuckles due to a bearing issue. My dog bones were smashing into the out drives. Thats a different story that looks like I have corrected.

Look behind the diffs out drive cup gears, there is a pin. The pin is just riding against the O-ring seal and smashing into it and then smashing into the diff case. I'm putting a shim between that pin and the diff case. A guy on this forum has an awesome vid on it also. Most 1/8 cars have these shims...my kraton didn't.

Some people harden out drives and I'll probably do it also since I have a map gas torch sitting on my work bench. Just put the outdrive in the vice....turn it orange with map gas, grab it with pliers and dunk it in old motor oil. Repeat once more. It should last 10 times longer. People are saying they groove out pretty fast. You can use water but the bubbles that form in the water...do not allow the metal to cool as rapidly as the oil. There are 8 cups that can be done on the Kraton.

I new RC vehicle always takes me hours and hours of work before I like it....LOL. Hey...it's something to do.

 

[Vanning]

Just an update on the Leopard motor. I ran it on a 16 Tooth pinion and it gets up to 180 F real fast. I dropped down to 14T....still getting hot fast. IDK.... I bet it stays cool on 4S and 5S and geared up. I got it for sale on the Bay of Fleas....I should just keep it but I'll try something else. It ripped pretty good but got hot way too fast for me for some reason.

 

[AGHolman]

Do you guys know if the 1600kv motor from an X-Maxx would fit? I have a spare motor and want to buy a Kraton roller. Thanks!

 

[Vanning]

I took an eleven minute snapshot of some date from my Mamba Monster X running 6S, 2200KV motor and 12 tooth pinion. 3.135 Horsepower. Amps never go much over 100

Do you guys know if the 1600kv motor from an X-Maxx would fit? I have a spare motor and want to buy a Kraton roller. Thanks!

post some measurements of the motor.

 

[AGHolman]

The X-maxx can is 85mm long (motor is 110mm total with shaft) with a 48mm diameter I believe.

 

[Vanning]

I'll measure the Kraton later today and let you know.

 

[justpassedu]

That's not my ESC...it's a motor heat sink under the fan that I drilled out from the top. Look in the holes, you will see the fins on my motor. It's like little air passages....seems to work awesome.

With the Orange Tekno springs front and back....my A-arms can ride level with the collar sitting in the middle of the threads on the shock body. Part #'s are TKR6093 and TKR6083. I'm pretty positive you will like them.

I just received the Tekno springs a few days ago , thank you for the recommendation on them , they definitely feel stiffer than stock and are a bit longer . I am hoping they work well. I still have yet to drive this Kraton , been slowly piecing it together. A few more parts and i should be ready to go , dropped the Hw Max8 in a few days ago with the stock motor , now i just have to make some bullet plug adapters to go from the motor to esc.

 

[Vanning]

I still got to get AGHolman some measurements, I completely forgot to do that but I will.

Justpassedu, sounds like you are getting close. I love the orange springs in mine. I was able to run my Kraton today.....thanks to member Trout74 for helping me out with some back ordered parts. I got my Kraton running real nice. I took another ESC data reading with the caps I added. The caps lowered the overall ripple voltage by 1%. Is that a big deal, no, but the lower the better. I took a snap shot of the ESC, check out the HP reading. I also tore my band new T-Bone racing bumper off the front. That bumper is no good. I hacked it down and heated it up to reshape it into a skid plate that protects the front were the A-arm pins are. Much better I think.

 

[trout74]

Just discovered this thread, great info here. Vanning, your the man! I have some badlands laying around, you like them on your Kraton? I think I'll try them out tomorrow. They look sweet on your rig. I run Tekno green spring on rear and yellow on front, you like orange all around, how do the orange ones compare to green and yellow?
Thanks,
Trout74

 

[Vanning]

The Bad Lands are smaller in diameter and also 1/2 inch offset so they are wide !!!! I do like them but for some reason I'm liking the stock wheels and tires more. The larger size is why. I think the Bad Lands are better on a regular 1/8th scale Truggy or Buggy. They are still good on the Kraton. I think you could gear up a little more with the Bad Lands on since they are a smaller diameter. I'll have to look into that one day.

Trout... I can't say much for the green and yellow springs but I'm glad I switched to the orange. I'll stay there for now.....seems to work better. Maybe a tad heavy for the front but still an improvement over stock. I will increase my oil weight to 80 and 60 soon. The stock springs just seemed too soft. I may do the piston upgrade also.

I got all the shims into the diffs and mixed in a little 200K into the center...I had 50K in there. The Kraton ran the same with 200K with my usual throttle control. However....if I punch it now, she will lift huge in the front. I have to nail it hard to stand it up. I'm still waiting for my Thunder Tiger wheelie bar. It's been over a month !!!!

So much for the T-Bone front bumper....Tore it right off the Kraton !!!! That's getting reworked.

 

[Vanning]

Just the fact that these springs are longer is better. With the Orange in the front and rear, my thumb adjusters are dead center in the threaded area of the shock body. My A arms run level to the ground.

 

[Vanning]

The X-maxx can is 85mm long (motor is 110mm total with shaft) with a 48mm diameter I believe.

You have plenty of room in the length without a problem. A stock motor is 40mm wide and the bolts are about 25.5mm apart. you got about 3mm between the stock motor and chassis plate. If the X-Maxx has a can that's 48mm wide...you may have to lift up the center diff mounts a little bit. The X-Maxx can is going to be real close to the center diff rear output cup. Like 1mm . It looks too close for me.

 

[Swerny]

I just bought a Leo 4092 1730KV and got a Nero ESC to run in the Kraton.

For that matter, i actually bought a new Kraton and sold my old one stock.

Going to throw the stock BLX185 ESC and motor in my Typhon.

Also have a bunch of Turnigy 6s packs that need XT90 connectors

 

[Vanning]

That motor is rated for 20 volts. I ran mine on 6S with a 12 Tooth and a 14 Tooth. It got hot as heck. I would get the Leopard 4092/2Y 1390 KV. It's rated for 25 volts.

You can run it on 6S but it doesn't stay cool at all. At least for me it didn't.

You would think it would stay cool but the voltage rating is lower than what a 6S pack is.

Some people have run it on 6S but it got way too hot for my liking...I couldn't fit a smaller pinion in it.

The place I got mine from said it wasn't a good motor on 6S but you can run it. 12 Tooth got too hot for me...IDK. Hope you have better luck.

LBP4092/2Y 125A 25V 4200W 1390kv 0.0079 2.5A 7mm 20mm Φ5.0 492g
LBP4092/3D 140A 20V 4200W 1730kv 0.0065 4.5A 7mm 20mm Φ5.0 492g

 

[Swerny]

I read this thread again after ordering it yesterday,

I figure if Thomas P makes the 1730kv Leo work on 6s i shouldn't have any problems.

I will keep everyone posted.

 

[Vanning]

I got it for the same reason. It just didn't do well for me...IDK. The only thing I could think of was it was rated for 20 Volts. Or......it can take over 180 degrees F no problem. It's got some serious grunt on 6S with a 16 Tooth in it but I had to shut it down early.... IDK...tried 14T and 12T also. Too hot.
Keep us posted for sure.

 

[Swerny]

I have the Leo 4092 mounted with the Nero ESC and got to try it (briefly) on 14t. Ambient temperature was low.

Very happy with the speed but had a bunch of issues and couldn't run for long.

I have now slapped on a 16t to try but it's raining out so I likely won't get to run it until the weekend