Kraton Motor Swap in Kraton

[Vanning]

That is exactly what I'm trying to figure out. I built and ran a HPI gas 5b for someone. It wasn't mine but I got a kick out of the size and torque before i handed it over to the owner. The Losi MTXL is huge !!!!! And everything is twice the cash at least. I think I'll slowly build one and I know my boys will get a kick out of it. 1/8 is great overall also. Maybe I'll keep the 1/5 gas.... it's a tad cheaper and the sound is something to enjoy once in a while. I'm on the fence to purchase one. Always wanted one but it's a hard scale to justify. Time and money and the room it takes up. I'll have to park it in the garage. Lol.

I sent Kershaw an e-mail to see if they have any 1717 motor mounts that may possibly fit into the Kraton.

Best of luck to you in Florida !!!! Hope all goes well.

 

[Vanning]

I'm going to try this motor in my Kraton. It's advertised for hefty 1/8 scale to very light weight 1/5th scale monster trucks on
6S. I have a Robinson Racing 20T and I need to find a decent 6S. Is it true that a 3000mah 6S can give the same run time as a 5000mah 4S ? I never actually paid much attention to that.

 

[Kauaiguy]

I'm going to try this motor in my Kraton. It's advertised for hefty 1/8 scale to very light weight 1/5th scale monster trucks on
6S. I have a Robinson Racing 20T and I need to find a decent 6S. Is it true that a 3000mah 6S can give the same run time as a 5000mah 4S ? I never actually paid much attention to that.

I read that it may over heat on less than 5s batterys, it likes the higher voltages.

 

[Vanning]

I'm running it on 6S. The thing I'm trying to figure out is....will a smaller capacity 6s get me the same run time as a larger capacity 4s. I'm only mentioning the 4S as a comparison. I'm trying to keep the truck balanced left and right in weight. My 5s setup is good..... now I want to revisit 6s again. Do I need a, for example, 5000mah on the 6S to get the same run times as less cells on the same 5000mAh ? I think a 6S setup is more efficient than 5 or 4s or 3s so you don't need the same mAh to get say.... 15-17 mins of run time. Therefore you can use a smaller mAh, lighter 6S to accomplish the same run times. ????

I have some work going into the center diff mount and some mods. I also try something with a spare fan. I may have to drill and tap the motor, not sure till it gets delivered. I have a fan directed into my center diff and pinion to keep that cooler than normal . That's just something I've been messing with. If your motor can stays cool enough.... why not keep the pinion, spur and center diff cooler ? The heat transfers out of the inside of the motor, into your motor shaft, and into the, pinion and center diff. I have the full aluminum center mount going in. (The modified motor mount cut). Heating up the pinion expands it and then your gear mesh tightens up and your loctite starts to get soft. So I go right to the strong green or red loctite. No blue. Also... the gear mesh has to be right. Taking those measures and maybe keeping all that cooler in there is a good thing.... just a theory ???The motors sure do get the gears hot and the center diff fluid.

 

[Dubbl-A]

I think that motor will be great. Big can, low KV and big pinion...!

I'm sure there are changes in how efficient a motor is at different voltages. I wouldn't want to go a low as 3000MAH though. That not much "gas" in the tank for a big truck. Try looking into a 4500mah pack. Turnigy Nan-Tech packs tend to be a bit smaller than the usual lipos with the same capacity and still get good run times.

 

[Vanning]

Looks like SMC has what I need.

I may shop by the weight of the battery. From what I can figure out on paper...these batteries are all = as long as you lower the KV.

4S - 5000mah
5S - 4500mah
6S - 3300mah

SMC has a 4300mah 40c 6S or
SMC ..........3600mah 60c 6S.

Maybe one will balance out the 4292 Leo that I'm attempting to bolt in.

These Big 1/8 scales love voltage but hate current.

I'll probably build this into a fresh Roller Kraton this winter rather than toying with a 1/5th. I think justpassedtu had some good advice on that.

 

[Dubbl-A]

Get the 4300!

 

[Vanning]

Yeah... no wonder it's not in stock. Lol. It's advertised to be the same size as a 4S hard case also. That looks like the one for sure.

Cool thing about SMC. They post all the specs also.


I have a few of my RC's rebuilt and stashed for the winter. My 8 year old son does some damage. What a chore that was. Ill run the Kraton this weekend and then start looking that over as it gets colder here.

 

[Vanning]

Results of new motor...

I'm back on the 6 pack's now !!!!

New setup is Leopard 1480KV, 20 tooth Pinion, 6S 5000mAh 50C. Stock tires (because I needed to see what temps were on them).

Old setup was stock motor 2050KV, 14 tooth Pinion, 5S 5200mAh 50C. Badlands

The 5S setup ran well, temps were perfect but mostly had to use the Badlands to stay 140-150. Stocks tires still reasonable but getting toasty 160-170 ish. Fun smooth setup ran for about 18 mins....you can see the full run on my chart.

I revisited the 6 pack setup with the Leopard 1480KV 20 tooth. WOW!!!! Smooth, fast and insane torque. I ran 25 mins and never got to the Lipo cutoff. I never saw over 150 degrees F (happy !!!) My data logger was 97% full at the time I shut down the Kraton. It probably would have run close to 29 mins ??

Here are the Logs

5S hits the solid red line at about 18 mins 5200mah....... 6S goes past 25 mins 5000mAh. The squiggly red is the pack voltage, minutes is at the bottom of the chart...the solid red line is the Lipo cut off.

 

[Dubbl-A]

Oh my. Now I want a 1480kv...
Excellent work on the data logging. Some good, real world info right there. At 25v that motor is making 1hp more than stock. Impressive!

 

[Vanning]

It has more horsepower but it's on 6S running over 25 mins, keeping its cool also !!! My Kraton is even balanced now. The Leopard balanced out the 5000 6S. ESC was happy and battery was very cool. I didn't have to wait long for it to cool down to put on the charger.

The worst setup I had in my Kraton was that Castle 2200Kv. It ran like a cheeta but on 6S, it was killing the ESC on temps. I saved that log and its full of errors from the ESC and the temps are way up.

I'm glad I revisited 6S with this motor. I did have to drill and tap it and mod the center mount but well worth it. Very smooth and powerful. Great results

It's rated at 23 volts... data log shows that my voltage spends most of its time there. It drops within the first few mins of the run then averages right in that range.

 

[Cater4anytink]

Higher KV's spin faster, lower KV's have more torque. You get more heat with less torque but I know the CC motors and ESC's are extremely efficient. The 2200kv may run cooler than the stock motor just from using better quality materials thought the motor. If it's 95% efficient and stock is 85% it should be faster and stay cool enough. IDK It's all give and take. On 6S it does ok with heat on 12 tooth, the 14 will probably just get by . I have to use a fan and heatsink and I stay at 140 F it seems. on 4S and 5S this setup will be good to go. I've been using CC for as long as I can remember.....I've never had a problem with anything ever. I used their ESC's in many RC helicopters also. I had a few Align electric helis. All my RC cars have CC ESC's in them.

I'll be running my 2200KV more when I get back...It's plenty fast with a 12 tooth pinion. I'll go to a 14 tooth and check heat. It's also going to be good on 4S and 5S. I feel I'll just stick to 6S so I'm just going to put in the Leo 1730 and get some bigger pinions to see how I like it.

I have only run my Kraton about 4 times so far....I'm going to shim all the diffs and harden the out drives. I should have shimmed the diffs already but I'll get around to it. I think it's 100% a good idea, I'm not sure why there are no shims behind the pins ???? I would think there would be. I'll harden the cups also but I'll use oil rather than water. Once I finish with the diffs....I'll start looking to bolt up the Leopard motor....I got the bullet connectors and some silicon wire ordered,

Vanning what do you mean by hardening the cups? First time ive heard of this I've actually boiled a few parts and shimmed my diffs

 

[Brushlessholic]

Results of new motor...

I'm back on the 6 pack's now !!!!

New setup is Leopard 1480KV, 20 tooth Pinion, 6S 5000mAh 50C. Stock tires (because I needed to see what temps were on them).

What brand 6S did you go with?

 

[Vanning]

Back then I had a MaxAmp in there and was Replacing a Turnigy. These days I'm running SMC's and loving them. I just tortured 2 4S SMC's in my large scale with absolutely no issues at all. Very low resistance per my charger. Great battery for a good price. Now I run 4S SMC's in my Tekno 410. It doesn't need much more. My Kraton loved 6S. MaxAmp batteries are real good but they are expensive for some reason. They are small for their Mah output. I tried one out and liked it. Then tried some SMC's. No complaints there.

 

[Brushlessholic]

Back then I had a MaxAmp in there and was Replacing a Turnigy. These days I'm running SMC's and loving them. I just tortured 2 4S SMC's in my large scale with absolutely no issues at all. Very low resistance per my charger. Great battery for a good price. Now I run 4S SMC's in my Tekno 410. It doesn't need much more. My Kraton loved 6S. MaxAmp batteries are real good but they are expensive for some reason. They are small for their Mah output. I tried one out and liked it. Then tried some SMC's. No complaints there.

I'm running SMC's 4S 6700mAh pack and it's been great but I'm switching to a 6S setup with a tp4070 motor. I have my mamba monster X set up for a single pack and was looking at SMC's 6S 4500 pack which is the same size and weight as the 4S I'm running now;
http://www.smc-racing.net/index.php?route=product/product&path=67_119&product_id=440

But I don't think that has a lot of headroom so going with a single pack that only leaves me with their heavy 9200mAh pack.

Don't know which to go with. I don't need the runtime of the huge 9200mAh but it can push more amps.

 

[Vanning]

That's why I got that super expensive MaxAmp. It's a small 6S and has like 5400 mah. No hard case. I guess they know how to play the number game.
More voltage needs less mah to get the same results as less cells more mah. Keeping the weight low also is key. I would figure 4500 mah is fine.

 

[jjl5590]

I ran into the motor screw hole size issue last night as well.

I somehow broke 2 pinion gears in the span of 2 battery packs (5s).

I thought my mesh was either too loose or too tight, was getting louder noise than usual but the Kraton ran OK.

Thought maybe the centre diff was gone.

Took it apart, the CD was fine, but there was nothing but grease in it, so i added some diff fluid for now (rebuild coming soon).

The motor didn't turn smoothly and made a "squeak" sound when turning the shaft by hand, it also felt like there was more resistance than usual.

I have a spare motor (RC Gear Shop 21050kv 4074) that i was going to slap in and low and behold, the screw holes on it are too small.

I had just ordered a new motor for my XO1 and tried it (just for laughs), and low and behold it fits....and it looked REALLY GOOD!

Slapped it all back together stock, set the mesh and tried it briefly outside and it seemed to run fine.

I know people will ask, so here's what the Castle 1717 big block looks like mounted.

Pics

Does this fit ok with the larger diameter can? I'm thinking about doing this with the 1717 motor and gearing up for massive speed