Big Rock Nose diving big rock 6s

[razorrc]

Nice video, can't wait to see your review on the new K6EXB! Did you find out what happened to your front drive?

Thanks. Yeah, broken diff case, but I think that's it.

Who said I was getting the Kraton 6S EXB???

 

[RCbuzz]

Thanks. Yeah, broken diff case, but I think that's it.

Who said I was getting the Kraton 6S EXB???

One can hope

 

[SrC]

View attachment 336751

I dealt with "Takin" at HH before. Takin did a lot of Talkin. He denied my new undriven Fireteam warranty claim. Which was a mess out the box. From stripped screws into plastic parts, etc., etc.
Had to get the HH Manager involved. Linked him to my FT AF build thread here, then it was immediately approved ASAP.

 

[RCbuzz]

I dealt with "Takin" at HH before. Takin did a lot of Talkin. He denied my new undriven Fireteam warranty claim. Which was a mess out the box. From stripped screws into plastic parts, etc., etc.
Had to get the HH Manager involved. Linked him to my FT AF build thread here, then it was immediately approved ASAP.

I think alot of the FT's were not quite to standard.. Maybe had something to do with "fire sale"?

You ever mess with that noisy motor, was it bad bearings?

 

[SrC]

Good memory of yours...that a year ago. Yeah FT's that were sold off on Black Friday' 22 for $400. beacoup , many who got them had very poor QC. Poorly built. True or not, sure seems like it was a Fire Sale....
It was a bad front BB on the motor. My BLX motor analyzer Picked it up quick. HH Sent me a new motor. It was fine. I swapped in 2 Ceramic BB's on the defective one. Have it on the side for my Mojave next. It's motor is overdue due for maintenance.

 

[RCbuzz]

Good memory of yours...that a year ago. Yeah FT's that were sold off on Black Friday' 22 for $400. beacoup , many who got them had very poor QC. Poorly built. True or not, sure seems like it was a Fire Sale....
It was a bad front BB on the motor. My BLX motor analyzer Picked it up quick. HH Sent me a new motor. It was fine. I swapped in 2 Ceramic BB's on the defective one. Have it on the side for my Mojave next. It's motor is overdue due for maintenance.

Very nice, even better that an analyzer can detect that! I have probably had motors fail prematurely because I didn't catch it.

Have you noticed the ceramic bearings being able to handle the shock from some light bashing?

I grabbed a regular replacement set from Jim's as I wasn't sure about ceramics.

I am told they are a no go for hubs if you like to jump them.

 

[SrC]

Honestly, I powered the FT up on the bench as soon as I opened the box. What I usually do. And I heard a terrible high pitched sound near the Center diff. I took off the pinion ,then throttled it and clearly it was the motor. I first thought it was a bad rotor. But was the front BB. Toast. All locked up.

QC does not exist with Arrma products. They design them up to a point, and rarely if ever check initial production runs.
So a F/W mistake like the V2 Firma 150, gets repeated with thousands of units getting sold that way. Its just part of HH business model. Some brands are this way. To keep a strict price point. That "QC" sticker placed on Arrma chassis' is for show /marketting.

 

[KevinC]

I imagine some new users to the hobby that buy this rig and don’t even realize there’s a problem…..I’m sure it is/has happened.

 

[razorrc]

I honestly didn't even notice any auto-drag braking on mine. Once or twice it seemed to brake a bit more than I was expecting, but not enough for me to think there was something wrong with the ESC. I certainly could do all my normal jumping and bashing without the fix to the point where I didn't think anything was wrong.

But I drive exclusively on dirt which is so loose and you're always sliding around that you just get used to adapting to whatever the car is doing.

 

[lee82gx]

I honestly didn't even notice any auto-drag braking on mine. Once or twice it seemed to brake a bit more than I was expecting, but not enough for me to think there was something wrong with the ESC. I certainly could do all my normal jumping and bashing without the fix to the point where I didn't think anything was wrong.

But I drive exclusively on dirt which is so loose and you're always sliding around that you just get used to adapting to whatever the car is doing.

The bigger issue might be during jumps if ever already you’re primed to land flat and it just brakes and nose dives.

 

[slick2500]

Honestly, I powered the FT up on the bench as soon as I opened the box. What I usually do. And I heard a terrible high pitched sound near the Center diff. I took off the pinion ,then throttled it and clearly it was the motor. I first thought it was a bad rotor. But was the front BB. Toast. All locked up.

QC does not exist with Arrma products. They design them up to a point, and rarely if ever check initial production runs.
So a F/W mistake like the V2 Firma 150, gets repeated with thousands of units getting sold that way. Its just part of HH business model. Some brands are this way. To keep a strict price point. That "QC" sticker placed on Arrma chassis' is for show /marketting.

I honestly think the QC sticker is just for the chassis, even though mine was likely bent out of the box.

 

[SrC]

Very nice, even better that an analyzer can detect that! I have probably had motors fail prematurely because I didn't catch it.

Have you noticed the ceramic bearings being able to handle the shock from some light bashing?

I grabbed a regular replacement set from Jim's as I wasn't sure about ceramics.

I am told they are a no go for hubs if you like to jump them.

Expensive Hybrid Ceramics for the rest of the chassis will perform pretty much the same and no more or less durable than plain Chromium BB's when it comes to bashing. So don't expect much from Ceramics on the chassis and drivetrain parts. They are best for Speedrunners looking to eek out that extra 1-2 mph at the top end. They require the same maintenance as would any BB's. Been there.
Quality Chromium BB sets for 1/3 the price of Good Ceramics makes the most sense.

>>>However, with Motors it makes sense to replace with 2 motor specific Abec rated Ceramic ones. Replacing the cheap OE motor BB's well before they crap out on you. Otherwise you can brick the rotor, needing a whole new motor. BLX motors can last for years and years if you are diligent. . The cost is not tragic for 2 Ceramics in a motor. I find I have way better results over Standard Motor BB's. Motors run better for much longer between maintenance and/or BB replacement. and a tad cooler.. This from experimenting over the years. FWIW, I only use a Synthetic Oil with motor BB's, whether Ceramic or Chromium type. 1 or 2 drops is all that's needed. Grease Specifically for the other chassis and drivetrain BB's.

>>>Note: water will rust out BB's very quickly. Even with a Marine grade Grease. Unless you are running SS ones, which tend to wear out quicker because SS Balls and Races are a softer than Chromium. Pick your poison.
Just my opinion. One that many others share as well.
BB maintenance is another topic discussed elsewhere on AF.



Edit. The Hub's INNER BB's always fail/blow out first. No matter the type you use. Keep an eye on them. Also the 2 Input cup BB's tend to wear out next. Often overlooked till its too late. Needing a $complete$ diff and/or Bulkhead. (6s line)

 

[slick2500]

Expensive Hybrid Ceramics for the rest of the chassis will perform pretty much the same and no more or less durable than plain Chromium BB's when it comes to bashing. So don't expect much from Ceramics on the chassis and drivetrain parts. They are best for Speedrunners looking to eek out that extra 1-2 mph at the top end. They require the same maintenance as would any BB's. Been there.
Quality Chromium BB sets for 1/3 the price of Good Ceramics makes the most sense.

>>>However, with Motors it makes sense to replace with 2 motor specific Abec rated Ceramic ones. Replacing the cheap OE motor BB's well before they crap out on you. Otherwise you can brick the rotor, needing a whole new motor. BLX motors can last for years and years if you are diligent. . The cost is not tragic for 2 Ceramics in a motor. I find I have way better results over Standard Motor BB's. Motors run better for much longer between maintenance and/or BB replacement. and a tad cooler.. This from experimenting over the years. FWIW, I only use a Synthetic Oil with motor BB's, whether Ceramic or Chromium type. 1 or 2 drops is all that's needed. Grease Specifically for the other chassis and drivetrain BB's.

>>>Note: water will rust out BB's very quickly. Even with a Marine grade Grease. Unless you are running SS ones, which tend to wear out quicker because SS Balls and Races are a softer than Chromium. Pick your poison.
Just my opinion. One that many others share as well.
BB maintenance is another topic discussed elsewhere on AF.



Edit. The Hub's INNER BB's always fail/blow out first. No matter the type you use. Keep an eye on them. Also the 2 Input cup BB's tend to wear out next. Often overlooked till its too late. Needing a $complete$ diff and/or Bulkhead. (6s line)

My oldest brushless motor that I have is nearly 10 years old it's an old 2 pole Traxxas 3500kv motor I replaced the bearings that were in it back in 2017 with TRBRC hybrid ceramics and haven't even touched them since.

 

[SrC]

^^^
+1.
I can also attest that I have never needed to replace any of my upgrade Ceramic motor BB's as of yet. Every Ceramic motor BB I've ever installed are still running great. For so many years now. It's like I almost expect them to fail at some point. But they just haven't. Standard chromium BB's would have failed like 3 times over by now. Probably bricking the Rotor while at it.
And some of mine have some high mileage on them now. Little extra money well spent for sure.
I do maintain my motors well enough however. Regardless.
My regimen has been to install Ceramic Motor BB's with All my New motors right out the box. I first test them on my motor analyzer, then take them apart and swap out the BB's for Ceramics. Just a ritual of mine. Whether RTR motors or Upgrade ones. I press out the cheap OE BB's out the gate.. And I always add a drop of Syn oil to my new motor BB's. I don't eat $motors/rotors$ anymore. And I push my motors quite hard. Have at least 9 motors, all with Ceramics in them now. From stocker motors to Sensored HW ones.
I keep spare Ceramic motor BB's on the side, that I've never needed for some years now. Unless I buy another new motor. Jims or TRBRC are my 2 go to brands, whoever has the best price. Avids are great also. Just usually costing more. Not sure if they are better??? IDK. But many swear by Avid stuff as well.

 

[RCbuzz]

Great feedback here.

I will check them out for my next maintenance cycle. Kind of wish I had not just stocked up on the regular ones, they will not go to waste though.

 

[slick2500]

^^^
+1.
I can also attest that I have never needed to replace any of my upgrade Ceramic motor BB's as of yet. Every Ceramic motor BB I've ever installed are still running great. For so many years now. It's like I almost expect them to fail at some point. But they just haven't. Standard chromium BB's would have failed like 3 times over by now. Probably bricking the Rotor while at it.
And some of mine have some high mileage on them now. Little extra money well spent for sure.
I do maintain my motors well enough however. Regardless.
My regimen has been to install Ceramic Motor BB's with All my New motors right out the box. I first test them on my motor analyzer, then take them apart and swap out the BB's for Ceramics. Just a ritual of mine. Whether RTR motors or Upgrade ones. I press out the cheap OE BB's out the gate.. And I always add a drop of Syn oil to my new motor BB's. I don't eat $motors/rotors$ anymore. And I push my motors quite hard. Have at least 9 motors, all with Ceramics in them now. From stocker motors to Sensored HW ones.
I keep spare Ceramic motor BB's on the side, that I've never needed for some years now. Unless I buy another new motor. Jims or TRBRC are my 2 go to brands, whoever has the best price. Avids are great also. Just usually costing more. Not sure if they are better??? IDK. But many swear by Avid stuff as well.

The only vehicles that I have had that even TRBRC hybrid ceramics didn't last in was the Typhon and Senton 3s. They did last slightly longer than the stock ones did, but not enough to make it worth buying them over and over and over again...................

Even Hobbywing uses cheap bearings in their motors. Myself along with numerous others have found Thailand bearings in our 4985 1650kv motors, Hobbywing says they are supposed to be Japanese bearings. I think someone even asked Hobbywing about it and all they said was they have no control over the final product. Maybe we should contact Falcon Sekido directly instead of through Hobbywing North America and ask them what the deal is? That motor is kind of a pain to find high speed bearings for unless you want to pay Boca $24 per bearing plus shipping. Every single bearing I find in 6x19x6mm is limited to 35k rpms.

 

[SrC]

I agree , not all BB's Ceramics, hybrid Cerams, Chromium are quality. Lots of cheap stuff out there. Hit or miss. I find that Boca Bearings sources the good stuff as well. If you ask for it. You will Pay$$$.
I never knew of Falcon Sekido, being the OE. Yeah motors need High grade HS Abec Rated BB's. Try finding nice ones spec'ed to 100k Rpms. A neat trick.

I imagine some new users to the hobby that buy this rig and don’t even realize there’s a problem…..I’m sure it is/has happened.

+1
Poor new to Rc guys don't have a chance sometimes. Happens over and over.... Many end up here at AF at least.
Google sends many guys to AF threads .

 

[slick2500]

I agree , not all BB's Ceramics, hybrid Cerams, Chromium are quality. Lots of cheap stuff out there. Hit or miss. I find that Boca Bearings sources the good stuff as well. If you ask for it. You will Pay$$$.
I never knew of Falcon Sekido, being the OE. Yeah motors need High grade HS Abec Rated BB's. Try finding nice ones spec'ed to 100k Rpms. A neat trick.

+1
Poor new to Rc guys don't have a chance sometimes. Happens over and over.... Many end up here at AF at least.
Google sends many guys to AF threads .

I've been trying. Like I said everything I find is 35k rpms max. There are even a few threads floating around about trying to find some, and the only ones anyone found were the Bocas. Jim's Bearings sells some bearings for the 4985 motor but he doesn't list any specs on them. https://jimsbearings.com/collections/hobby-wing-motor/products/hobby-wing-4985-1650kv

This is all the description says.
2 bearings:

• 2- 6x19x6
• Abec 5
• Pre Greased
• Chrome steel
• nylon retainers*
• Metal Shield

*Nylon retainers handle up to 60% more speed than a standard steel retainer. < I find this rather hard to believe.

Searching through the catalogs from actual bearing manufactures like SKF they do not even list a high speed bearing in that size. Even the SKF bearings are only rated to about 40k rpms. Why Hobbywing decided to go with that size bearing is beyond me.