Limitless TP4080SVM - 1721 KILLER

[limitless202+]

Sounds perfect. Pretty rare to be above 28 volts during a speed run.

Cool. Guess i better be thanking mike

 

[vwturbowolf]

Cool. Guess i better be thanking mike

Are you trying to build a dual 5870?

 

[limitless202+]

Are you trying to build a dual 5870?

Yeah i actually already built it.

 

[vwturbowolf]

Yeah i actually already built it.

It’s gonna be heavy…

 

[limitless202+]

It’s gonna be heavy…

its a thicc boi… almost 40lbs RTR with lipos

 

[Audi X-Maxx]

I'd like to see TP make 4-pole large can motors. Does anyone know if there's a reason why this isn't possible?

They can make 4-Pole motors and they do. The TP5670-CM 2510kv ( not the TP5670 Sensored or the sensorless TP5670 - these are completely different motors) is 6-Pole big can and can is rated for 12,000Watts as it approaches 85k RPM. The speed/power of this motor makes its presence as it approaches max RPM (85,000), which means a conservative pinion is needed rather than pushing a big pinion. Ultimately, this is better as it results in a smoother acceleration through the power band. The XLX2 can be used with this can and I have had a lot of success with it. The problem users run into with this combo is that they overgear thinking it has the torque to do so. It does but it doesn’t. The initial current draw for this can is very high and if the RC is geared to high, it will cause current feedback to the ESC and Lipo Tabs… this gets hot quickly and can result in desoldered lipo tabs or white smoke from the ESC. This is why it is imperative to use conservative gearing. The alternative is to use a capable Flier ESC. I managed to fir a 500A Flier on my build with this can and it works but the throttle response is not as consistent as I need. So, bottom line, the XLX2 and the TP5670-CM is a big can option but should be treated as if it were a 1721 in regards to gearing. I’ll chat with my connection at TP and see if they would be able to produce a 56XX series SVM in a 4-Pole Configuration. I just suspect that the RPM will max out at 60k or less with a 14-15kW power rating.

On another note: Castle will be releasing a 12S ESC, supposedly by the end of 2022. And if this helps, MGM Controllers is also scheduled to release their Gen3 controllers in the very near future. It has an integrated heat sink, which means it has a smaller footprint (which has often been the limiting parameter when discussing Limitless/Infraction Platforms).

I hope the info helps and I will see if TP can produce a 4-Pole big can as an option.

-CM

 

[Moirae]

They can make 4-Pole motors and they do. The TP5670-CM 2510kv ( not the TP5670 Sensored or the sensorless TP5670 - these are completely different motors) is 6-Pole big can and can is rated for 12,000Watts as it approaches 85k RPM. The speed/power of this motor makes its presence as it approaches max RPM (85,000), which means a conservative pinion is needed rather than pushing a big pinion. Ultimately, this is better as it results in a smoother acceleration through the power band. The XLX2 can be used with this can and I have had a lot of success with it. The problem users run into with this combo is that they overgear thinking it has the torque to do so. It does but it doesn’t. The initial current draw for this can is very high and if the RC is geared to high, it will cause current feedback to the ESC and Lipo Tabs… this gets hot quickly and can result in desoldered lipo tabs or white smoke from the ESC. This is why it is imperative to use conservative gearing. The alternative is to use a capable Flier ESC. I managed to fir a 500A Flier on my build with this can and it works but the throttle response is not as consistent as I need. So, bottom line, the XLX2 and the TP5670-CM is a big can option but should be treated as if it were a 1721 in regards to gearing. I’ll chat with my connection at TP and see if they would be able to produce a 56XX series SVM in a 4-Pole Configuration. I just suspect that the RPM will max out at 60k or less with a 14-15kW power rating.

On another note: Castle will be releasing a 12S ESC, supposedly by the end of 2022. And if this helps, MGM Controllers is also scheduled to release their Gen3 controllers in the very near future. It has an integrated heat sink, which means it has a smaller footprint (which has often been the limiting parameter when discussing Limitless/Infraction Platforms).

I hope the info helps and I will see if TP can produce a 4-Pole big can as an option.

-CM

Interesting stuff here. Here's to hoping you're right about that new castle esc, that would be awesome.

 

[vwturbowolf]

Interesting stuff here. Here's to hoping you're right about that new castle esc, that would be awesome.

I was told because of a few different reasons that castle would be pushing that esc back to next year. But they are releasing a motor today or tomorrow I think so who knows they may keep on track.

 

[Moirae]

I was told because of a few different reasons that castle would be pushing that esc back to next year. But they are releasing a motor today or tomorrow I think so who knows they may keep on track.

Damn I had no idea they were releasing a motor either. Any idea on size/kv?

 

[vwturbowolf]

Damn I had no idea they were releasing a motor either. Any idea on size/kv?

For the sake of waiting this long I’ll let it be released first,
A couple guys I run with were testing it,
It’s a 2028 size can,
Higher kv

 

[Moirae]

For the sake of waiting this long I’ll let it be released first,
A couple guys I run with were testing it,
It’s a 2028 size can,
Higher kv

Awesome! thanks bro

 

[Diem Turner]

They can make 4-Pole motors and they do. The TP5670-CM 2510kv ( not the TP5670 Sensored or the sensorless TP5670 - these are completely different motors) is 6-Pole big can and can is rated for 12,000Watts as it approaches 85k RPM. The speed/power of this motor makes its presence as it approaches max RPM (85,000), which means a conservative pinion is needed rather than pushing a big pinion. Ultimately, this is better as it results in a smoother acceleration through the power band. The XLX2 can be used with this can and I have had a lot of success with it. The problem users run into with this combo is that they overgear thinking it has the torque to do so. It does but it doesn’t. The initial current draw for this can is very high and if the RC is geared to high, it will cause current feedback to the ESC and Lipo Tabs… this gets hot quickly and can result in desoldered lipo tabs or white smoke from the ESC. This is why it is imperative to use conservative gearing. The alternative is to use a capable Flier ESC. I managed to fir a 500A Flier on my build with this can and it works but the throttle response is not as consistent as I need. So, bottom line, the XLX2 and the TP5670-CM is a big can option but should be treated as if it were a 1721 in regards to gearing. I’ll chat with my connection at TP and see if they would be able to produce a 56XX series SVM in a 4-Pole Configuration. I just suspect that the RPM will max out at 60k or less with a 14-15kW power rating.

On another note: Castle will be releasing a 12S ESC, supposedly by the end of 2022. And if this helps, MGM Controllers is also scheduled to release their Gen3 controllers in the very near future. It has an integrated heat sink, which means it has a smaller footprint (which has often been the limiting parameter when discussing Limitless/Infraction Platforms).

I hope the info helps and I will see if TP can produce a 4-Pole big can as an option.

-CM

Interesting information for sure. Thanks for the heads up

 

[LibertyMKiii]

For the sake of waiting this long I’ll let it be released first,
A couple guys I run with were testing it,
It’s a 2028 size can,
Higher kv

That's good news, everyone wanted a 2028 but closer to 2,000 kv.
That would be a solid motor option if so.

Castle releasing a 12s esc sort of scares me to be honest. People think they can run 8s out of the box and crash their cars constantly. We are really pushing the boundaries of low-cell running lately and all of that translates to better high-voltage runs.

12s will be an expensive and heavy disaster for most users.

 

[Diem Turner]

That's good news, everyone wanted a 2028 but closer to 2,000 kv.
That would be a solid motor option if so.

Castle releasing a 12s esc sort of scares me to be honest. People think they can run 8s out of the box and crash their cars constantly. We are really pushing the boundaries of low-cell running lately and all of that translates to better high-voltage runs.

12s will be an expensive and heavy disaster for most users.

I couldn't agree more. I already find 8S a somewhat terrifying prospect at this point...to say nothing of 12S. I mean, for those already running in the 180s or 190s, I can see where this can be beneficial (though I would argue that tires are showing themselves to be the weak link at this point). But I can only echo your sentiment that this spells almost certain disaster for anyone who hasn't worked their way up the ladder.

 

[limitless202+]

For the sake of waiting this long I’ll let it be released first,
A couple guys I run with were testing it,
It’s a 2028 size can,
Higher kv

So something like a 5860CM?
finally TP are making some bigger CM motors. Somewhere around 1850kv i think would be ideal.

That's good news, everyone wanted a 2028 but closer to 2,000 kv.
That would be a solid motor option if so.

Castle releasing a 12s esc sort of scares me to be honest. People think they can run 8s out of the box and crash their cars constantly. We are really pushing the boundaries of low-cell running lately and all of that translates to better high-voltage runs.

12s will be an expensive and heavy disaster for most users.

If castle made a 12s esc i would be shocked if it is the 1st esc to push the 1,000A barrier. I belive it would need to be very pricey though to keep beginners away from it. Heck, for most all speedrunning below 200KMH, the mmx8s will take care of you just fine, and the xlx2 has pushed over 200mph all on its own.
i just realized… ONYX TUNED 58MM CM MOTOR!!!! OH YEEEEEEEEE

 

[Diem Turner]

So something like a 5860CM?
finally TP are making some bigger CM motors. Somewhere around 1850kv i think would be ideal.

If castle made a 12s esc i would be shocked if it is the 1st esc to push the 1,000A barrier. I belive it would need to be very pricey though to keep beginners away from it. Heck, for most all speedrunning below 200KMH, the mmx8s will take care of you just fine, and the xlx2 has pushed over 200mph all on its own.
i just realized… ONYX TUNED 58MM CM MOTOR!!!! OH YEEEEEEEEE

The problem with a large can CM motor will still remain however. They're still 6-pole motors and the XLX2 has issues syncing them over 30k RPM. So it doesn't actually help unfortunately. There's a 5670CM (1298, 1560, 1930 and 2510KV for use with 14S, 12S, 10S and 8S respectively) that spins up to 85k RPM, but I don't know what ESC you'd use to power it. I don't know how well MGM or Flier ESCs deal with 6-pole motors (MGM are often paired with LMT which are 2-pole motors). Are there any other viable ESC options for speed running? Now, if Castle has addressed the 6-pole issue in the firmware of their new ESC, then that would open up some new possibilities. It's not like you'd have to run it on 12S.

 

[limitless202+]

The problem with a large can CM motor will still remain however. They're still 6-pole motors and the XLX2 has issues syncing them over 30k RPM. So it doesn't actually help unfortunately. There's a 5670CM (1298, 1560, 1930 and 2510KV for use with 14S, 12S, 10S and 8S respectively) that spins up to 85k RPM, but I don't know what ESC you'd use to power it. I don't know how well MGM or Flier ESCs deal with 6-pole motors (MGM are often paired with LMT which are 2-pole motors). Are there any other viable ESC options for speed running? Now, if Castle has addressed the 6-pole issue in the firmware of their new ESC, then that would open up some new possibilities. It's not like you'd have to run it on 12S.

Exactly, the new ESC would be a game changer, because now the limits of the XLX2 are starting to be found. You have to be v dry picky about gearing to not hit the amp limit for the XLX2, which has been proven at about 650A tops, you wouldnt have to drive on 12s for it to be the next step up.

 

[LibertyMKiii]

Exactly, the new ESC would be a game changer, because now the limits of the XLX2 are starting to be found. You have to be v dry picky about gearing to not hit the amp limit for the XLX2, which has been proven at about 650A tops, you wouldnt have to drive on 12s for it to be the next step up.

The problem is the power handling of the cars and tires. Plus there just wont be enough grip.
We are already seeing 18-20 kW pushed through these cars. The axles and diffs will get destroyed if they were doing 30-40kW

Remember around 746 watts = 1 hp.
A motocross 125cc 2 stroke dirtbike has about 13 horsepower

18kw / 746 = 24hp

 

[limitless202+]

The problem is the power handling of the cars and tires. Plus there just wont be enough grip.
We are already seeing 18-20 kW pushed through these cars. The axles and diffs will get destroyed if they were doing 30-40kW

Remember around 746 watts = 1 hp.
A motocross 125cc 2 stroke dirtbike has about 13 horsepower

18kw / 746 = 24hp

Not to mention the duals… im using the custom 8570 which should be pushing over 20kw if im lucky, that translates to almost 60hp If everything goes according to the plan, and TP is right about the specs.

 

[LibertyMKiii]

Not to mention the duals… im using the custom 8570 which should be pushing over 20kw if im lucky, that translates to almost 60hp If everything goes according to the plan, and TP is right about the specs.

60 hp with axles having a diameter less than a pencil.
I know exactly how that's going to work...