TYPHON 6S BLX V4 MAXIMUM SPEED UPGRADE HELP

[arelee]

After 38 years away from RC cars, I decided to get back into the hobby. I wanted to build the fastest car that I could.

I purchased a Kraton 6s BLX and a Kraton 8s BLX. I was going to start with the 6s. That's when I came across " ARRMA FORUM". Being a novice to the' new generation', large scale cars, I realized that I have a lot to learn.

Looking around on the internet, I realized that the Kraton was the wrong platform for this project. After reading about the "Typhon 6s BLX v4, and contacting 'Horizon Hobby', I realized this was the beast that I needed to tame. I ordered one just before Christmas, along with an extra body, and a 'SKYRC speedometer.
The purpose of this thread is to find out what I need to do and buy, to make the Typhon go as fast as it can on a straight, asphalt surface. The Kraton 6s and its big brother can play in the dirt and gravel.

I am also wondering if there are solid rubber, racing tires with wheels that will be a match for the Typhon, without wheel adapters. Also, proper shock and differential fluids, and an easy to understand transmitter/receiver with a long distance range.

I have 6s 22.2V 5000 mAh batteries. Do batteries have anything to do with the speed of a car that's running fast short runs? If so, any suggestions?

This is going to be fun!

 

[Ari33]

You should have maybe ordered the Arrma Limitless instead if max top speed is your goal.

Yes using good quality high discharge Lipos is very important for achieving max speed. Not sure what is top dog these days, probably Turnigy Graphenes.. but see what Lipos the speedrunning guys are using.

 

[arelee]

Hey Ari33'

That "Limitless" is making mouth water, and my wallet cringe. I think I'll start with the Typhon. If things work out smoothly, I can only imaging what a beefed-up "Limitless" could do with a rocket incorporated into it.

You have a Typhon 6s. Is it the V4= (2019 model). How do you like it, (mine hasn't arrived yet). Are you using it for bashing or speed? I saw a photo of one that had a speedometer on the rear tower, that read 126 MPH. Stock everything but the gearing. Impressive.

 

[Ari33]

Hey Ari33'

That "Limitless" is making mouth water, and my wallet cringe. I think I'll start with the Typhon. If things work out smoothly, I can only imaging what a beefed-up "Limitless" could do with a rocket incorporated into it.

You have a Typhon 6s. Is it the V4= (2019 model). How do you like it, (mine hasn't arrived yet). Are you using it for bashing or speed? I saw a photo of one that had a speedometer on the rear tower, that read 126 MPH. Stock everything but the gearing. Impressive.

Hi Arlee, I don't do any speed running, just bashing... but yep my V4 Typhon has been great, its a very tough little beastie. Ideal for my needs.

 

[Notorious J]

Hey @arelee. There's a lot that goes into building a straight line fast rc. Weight reduction, gearing, center spools and obviously, tires. @LibertyMKiii, @phildogg, @GMballistic, and @jondilly1974 have built/are building dedicated speed runners. If you follow their builds, you will get a very good understanding of what's necessary to make the Typhon go straight and fast. Esc's, cap packs and batteries also play a big part, but they also cover those aspects in their threads. I have a Typhon 6s V4 which I thought was very fast out of the box. Where these guys take them to is extraordinary.

 

[arelee]

Hey @arelee. There's a lot that goes into building a straight line fast rc. Weight reduction, gearing, center spools and obviously, tires. @LibertyMKiii, @phildogg, @GMballistic, and @jondilly1974 have built/are building dedicated speed runners. If you follow their builds, you will get a very good understanding of what's necessary to make the Typhon go straight and fast. Esc's, cap packs and batteries also play a big part, but they also cover those aspects in their threads. I have a Typhon 6s V4 which I thought was very fast out of the box. Where these guys take them to is extraordinary.

Hey Notorious J,

Good to hear from you. Thank's for giving me the links to the above builders. Some of them gave me great advice on my other thread.

 

[LibertyMKiii]

The king of radio range is Futaba hands down. I have seen you mention concerns about costs so you may want to run the Futaba 3PV. It is relatively low cost and still functions great. (it is the radio I use and only has range issues if there is some major interference at that location) Adding to this the higher end radios with the FASST protocol have better range than the 3PV.

Running location is actually one of the most difficult things about this segment of the hobby. Finding a smooth surface, with little or no traffic, and no radio interference issues is like finding a unicorn.

Batteries do play a big part in the process. Many speed runners run 2 packs in parallel. This bumps your 2 5000mAh batteries to work as if 1 10,000 mAh pack. The reason is to combat voltage drop. You motor turns a certain number of rpms per volt. During a speed run the voltage will sag. So your fully charged 6s pack will go from 25 volts down to 21 volts.
If for example you had a 2200kv motor that 4 volts lost is 8,800 RPM lost.

Also you have to consider Watts as horsepower or the work being done. Taking the BLX 185 esc as an example:
1. voltage sag example
21v * 180 amps = 3780 watts (less efficiency losses, friction etc)

2. Less sage with parallel battery setup
23.5v * 180 amps = 4230 watts ((less efficiency losses, friction etc)

This sort of difference typically means 5-10mph gained speed. The cost is 2+ more lbs of weight and another $100.00 high end lipo pack.

People generally run the Castle XL-X esc. This esc allows up to 8s and max of 400 amps! Imagine that above example 23.5v * 350 amps = 8,225 watts!!!!

Aerodynamics will play a big part of the process. Open wheel buggies like the Typhon tend to get slowed down by aerodynamics significantly at the 100mph mark. With several hundred dollars invested in a 1/5 scale power system and around 9+ horsepower of electricity they can get up in the ball park of 140 mph +/- 10 mph. The record for a Limitless right now is 152 mph held by @phildogg

With that said he has other 1/8 scale cars similar to the Typhon using a Delta Plastics "GT" body which have gone significantly faster! No magic there, just better aerodynamics allow it to go faster.

There is no way around it, speed run cars are very expensive to build! Going 100mph with a factory electronics Arrma is very possible. I have done 96 mph with the Kraton and expecting more on my Typhon when I test it. (original BLX 185 system). I can give you exact details on how to set it up for that. Going faster becomes a choice of preference and some times trial and error, which again is very expensive.

You may want to explore ROSSA for some inspiration http://www.rossa.org.uk/

As far as fastest RC car in the world it happens to be 100% rocket powered.

Most of the world record stuff happens in Europe where they have a strong gathering yearly to test on an airstrip. (I wish I could go!)

 

[arelee]

Thank's buddy!!!

What can I say, all questions answered in one post.

I just now purchased a "Futaba 3PV-R314SB,( I hope the instruction manual is written in english), new microwave oven and a "LIMITLESS".

The Limitless will be an empty, shelf queen for some time. Kind of a "light at the end of the tunnel".

I've been looking at good quality, dual input battery chargers,(that isn't too complicated), and has phone-in customer support I think the "Hitec RCD inc X2 #HRC44270 looks pretty good. I've tried calling them since the day before Christmas. Nobody home. Maybe the day after New Year they'll be open. I'm looking for faster time in Balance/Charge and Storage modes, than the piece of junk "ProtekRC Prodigy 610EZ that i currently have.

Again LibertyMKiii, thank's for sharing your knowledge.

 

[LibertyMKiii]

Thank's buddy!!!

What can I say, all questions answered in one post.

I just now purchased a "Futaba 3PV-R314SB,( I hope the instruction manual is written in (english), new microwave oven and a "LIMITLESS".

The Limitless will be an empty, shelf queen for some time. Kind of a "light at the end of the tunnel".

I've been looking at good quality, dual input battery chargers,(that isn't too complicated), and has phone-in customer support I think the "Hitec RCD inc X2 #HRC44270 looks pretty good. I've tried calling them since the day before Christmas. Nobody home. Maybe the day after New Year they'll be open. I'm looking for faster time in Balance/Charge and Storage modes, than the piece of junk "ProtekRC Prodigy 610EZ that i currently have.

Again LibertyMKiii, thank's for sharing your knowledge.

With 6s LiPo packs those chargers are just ok.
Charge time will be over 1 hour and discharge to storage voltage will take 8- 15 hours on average.
Skip all the manufacturer claims about amps and look specifically at watts.
You could run one of those chargers and separately get a "smart discharger" or look for a more high power charger.
Best thing for some light reading is to check out this thread! https://www.arrmaforum.com/threads/recommend-me-a-battery-charger.1079/

 

[joostin420]

Maybe my typhon GT8LE build will have some ideas that may help. It is not built for all out max speed, but you will get the idea

https://www.arrmaforum.com/threads/anyone-running-tp-4050cm-3200kv-on-6s.10069/

 

[arelee]

With 6s LiPo packs those chargers are just ok.
Charge time will be over 1 hour and discharge to storage voltage will take 8- 15 hours on average.
Skip all the manufacturer claims about amps and look specifically at watts.
You could run one of those chargers and separately get a "smart discharger" or look for a more high power charger.
Best thing for some light reading is to check out this thread! https://www.arrmaforum.com/threads/recommend-me-a-battery-charger.1079/

With 6s LiPo packs those chargers are just ok.
Charge time will be over 1 hour and discharge to storage voltage will take 8- 15 hours on average.
Skip all the manufacturer claims about amps and look specifically at watts.
You could run one of those chargers and separately get a "smart discharger" or look for a more high power charger.
Best thing for some light reading is to check out this thread! https://www.arrmaforum.com/threads/recommend-me-a-battery-charger.1079/

Hey LibertyMKiii,

My current charger= ProtekRC "Prodigy 610EZ ", charge/balanced a 6s, 60C 22.2V 111Wh 5000mAh in about (1) hour. With the battery nearly full, (I ran it in my Kraton 6s for about 15 minutes), it took roughly (14) hours in storage mode to get a reading of 23.1V=3.85v per cell. Then it shut down. The charge/balance time seemed reasonable. However, the (14) hours in storage mode seemed way to long. I called ProtekRC and explained my concern. They sent me a new charger, and told me to keep the old one.

The amount of time you stated above, for both modes are nearly identical to mine. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the ProtekRC charger IS performing at a decent time rate, especially in storage mode?

Also, the specifications of my ProtekRC charger(s) states: Charge max= 100W. The Hitec RCD Inc. 2X AC plus black edition states: Total charge circuit power =100A. Same thing. Right?

 

[arelee]

Maybe my typhon GT8LE build will have some ideas that may help. It is not built for all out max speed, but you will get the idea

https://www.arrmaforum.com/threads/anyone-running-tp-4050cm-3200kv-on-6s.10069/

View attachment 58926

Hi joostin420.

Very nice looking car! Interesting upgrades to consider. I notice that you have a "Yeah Racing" heat sink with twin fans. That's what I use on my Kraton 6s. I have mine mounted directly onto the motor, with the air blowing down. I notice that yours are elevated. Why did you choose that option? Also, is your air blowing up or down?

Good luck with your build. Looks like fun!

 

[joostin420]

Thanx ?? I used to have the fans mount directly to the heatsink and they do blow downward. I did add standoffs to all my installs and there is better flow with them raised.

 

[arelee]

Thank's joostin420, I'm going to do the same.

Happy New Year.

 

[LibertyMKiii]

Hey LibertyMKiii,

My current charger= ProtekRC "Prodigy 610EZ ", charge/balanced a 6s, 60C 22.2V 111Wh 5000mAh in about (1) hour. With the battery nearly full, (I ran it in my Kraton 6s for about 15 minutes), it took roughly (14) hours in storage mode to get a reading of 23.1V=3.85v per cell. Then it shut down. The charge/balance time seemed reasonable. However, the (14) hours in storage mode seemed way to long. I called ProtekRC and explained my concern. They sent me a new charger, and told me to keep the old one.

The amount of time you stated above, for both modes are nearly identical to mine. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the ProtekRC charger IS performing at a decent time rate, especially in storage mode?

Also, the specifications of my ProtekRC charger(s) states: Charge max= 100W. The Hitec RCD Inc. 2X AC plus black edition states: Total charge circuit power =100A. Same thing. Right?

Amps are not watts, but that charger does 100 watts charging power. Discharge is 0.1 amps which is probably around that same 5-15 watts range. ISDT makes a smart discharger that discharges up to 200 watts that would cut that time WAY down. I am highly considering getting one at some point this year.

 

[arelee]

Hey LibertyMKiii,

I made a mistake in the above listing. Both mentioned chargers state 100 Watts. I called "Hitec" and gave the technician the specs of my "ProtekRC" charger(s). He said that with the battery's nearly full state, 14 hours or so was about spot-on in "storage" mode with their charger also. I'll just keep my 2 chargers, and get an ISDT smart discharger.

I see that you picked-up a "Limitless". I'll be watching to see if you post anything about the build. My Typhon 6s V4 and the Limitless should be here next week. When they do, I'm changing the "avatar" photo in my profile.

Thank's again buddy.

 

[LibertyMKiii]

Hey LibertyMKiii,

I made a mistake in the above listing. Both mentioned chargers state 100 Watts. I called "Hitec" and gave the technician the specs of my "ProtekRC" charger(s). He said that with the battery's nearly full state, 14 hours or so was about spot-on in "storage" mode with their charger also. I'll just keep my 2 chargers, and get an ISDT smart discharger.

I see that you picked-up a "Limitless". I'll be watching to see if you post anything about the build. My Typhon 6s V4 and the Limitless should be here next week. When they do, I'm changing the "avatar" photo in my profile.

Thank's again buddy.

It is much more than any Limitless I have seen and its basically done other than finishing the carbon fiber body....
https://www.arrmaforum.com/threads/libertys-unlimited-dream-speed-build.11932/page-5

 

[arelee]

The king of radio range is Futaba hands down. I have seen you mention concerns about costs so you may want to run the Futaba 3PV. It is relatively low cost and still functions great. (it is the radio I use and only has range issues if there is some major interference at that location)

Running location is actually one of the most difficult things about this segment of the hobby. Finding a smooth surface, with little or no traffic, and no radio interference issues is like finding a unicorn.

Batteries do play a big part in the process. Many speed runners run 2 packs in parallel. This bumps your 2 5000mAh batteries to work as if 1 10,000 mAh pack. The reason is to combat voltage drop. You motor turns a certain number of rpms per volt. During a speed run the voltage will sag. So your fully charged 6s pack will go from 25 volts down to 21 volts.
If for example you had a 2200kv motor that 4 volts lost is 8,800 RPM lost.

Also you have to consider Watts as horsepower or the work being done. Taking the BLX 185 esc as an example:
1. voltage sag example
21v * 180 amps = 3780 watts (less efficiency losses, friction etc)

2. Less sage with parallel battery setup
23.5v * 180 amps = 4230 watts ((less efficiency losses, friction etc)

This sort of difference typically means 5-10mph gained speed. The cost is 2+ more lbs of weight and another $100.00 high end lipo pack.

People generally run the Castle XL-X esc. This esc allows up to 8s and max of 400 amps! Imagine that above example 23.5v * 350 amps = 8,225 watts!!!!

Aerodynamics will play a big part of the process. Open wheel buggies like the Typhon tend to get slowed down by aerodynamics significantly at the 100mph mark. With several hundred dollars invested in a 1/5 scale power system and around 9+ horsepower of electricity they can get up in the ball park of 140 mph +/- 10 mph. The record for a Limitless right now is 152 mph held by @phildogg

With that said he has other 1/8 scale cars similar to the Typhon using a Delta Plastics "GT" body which have gone significantly faster! No magic there, just better aerodynamics allow it to go faster.

There is no way around it, speed run cars are very expensive to build! Going 100mph with a factory electronics Arrma is very possible. I have done 96 mph with the Kraton and expecting more on my Typhon when I test it. (original BLX 185 system). I can give you exact details on how to set it up for that. Going faster becomes a choice of preference and some times trial and error, which again is very expensive.

You may want to explore ROSSA for some inspiration http://www.rossa.org.uk/

As far as fastest RC car in the world it happens to be 100% rocket powered.

Most of the world record stuff happens in Europe where they have a strong gathering yearly to test on an airstrip. (I wish I could go!)

Hey Liberty.

The Thphon 6s V4 arrived yesterday. Surprisingly smaller than I expected. Next to my Kraton 6s, it looks like a 1/10 scale car, and like a "Hot Wheels" car, next to my Kraton 8S. Nicely built and very light. I also ordered= Limitless 34t spool gear, (i'll be ordering a 26t pinion gear), Hot Racing NRO6509 (soft) shock springs and 1000CST oil for the shocks and, sealed bearings. I'll also be "drooping" the front and rear. If that works out for fast, straight runs, on asphalt, and will accept a Delta Plastiks GT body without having to adapt it for the shock towers, fine. If not, what's involved in replacing the existing shock towers and shocks, with ones for the Limitless? To keep it as aerodynamic as possible, the only body modification I want to make, will be for the rocket motor.

For now, I will not be changing the motor or ESC, and will be running (X2), 60C 22.2V-111Wh 5000mAh batteries.

In my other thread you suggested: "Locked diffs (silly putty or 2 mill fluid)". I assume that is 2,000,000 fluid. I can't find any 2,000,000CTS fluid?

Any input on this post would be greatly appreciated.

I'm reading your thread "Liberty's "Unlimited" dream speed build", like an owners manual. Valuable thread!

Oh yeah, I also ordered an ISDT FD-200 Smart Control Discharger 200W 25A, and a Digital Battery Capacity Tester/ Battery Checker, without balance function, to be used when discharging. I'll use my charger(s) to balance the cells in "storage" mode.

Well amigo, what do you think?

 

[LibertyMKiii]

Hey Liberty.

The Thphon 6s V4 arrived yesterday. Surprisingly smaller than I expected. Next to my Kraton 6s, it looks like a 1/10 scale car, and like a "Hot Wheels" car, next to my Kraton 8S. Nicely built and very light. I also ordered= Limitless 34t spool gear, (i'll be ordering a 26t pinion gear), Hot Racing NRO6509 (soft) shock springs and 1000CST oil for the shocks and, sealed bearings. I'll also be "drooping" the front and rear. If that works out for fast, straight runs, on asphalt, and will accept a Delta Plastiks GT body without having to adapt it for the shock towers, fine. If not, what's involved in replacing the existing shock towers and shocks, with ones for the Limitless? To keep it as aerodynamic as possible, the only body modification I want to make, will be for the rocket motor.

For now, I will not be changing the motor or ESC, and will be running (X2), 60C 22.2V-111Wh 5000mAh batteries.

In my other thread you suggested: "Locked diffs (silly putty or 2 mill fluid)". I assume that is 2,000,000 fluid. I can't find any 2,000,000CTS fluid?

Any input on this post would be greatly appreciated.

I'm reading your thread "Liberty's "Unlimited" dream speed build", like an owners manual. Valuable thread!

Oh yeah, I also ordered an ISDT FD-200 Smart Control Discharger 200W 25A, and a Digital Battery Capacity Tester/ Battery Checker, without balance function, to be used when discharging. I'll use my charger(s) to balance the cells in "storage" mode.

Well amigo, what do you think?

That 26/34 gearing should get 90 mph. Get used to going fast with that and then you may want to move up to a 29t pinion.

Traxxas makes a 1,000,000 fluid. I must have imagined a 2 mill.

Check out this very well done video (not mine) on using Mugen parts for body mounting:

You would use side battery trays to run parallel 6s packs. EM Performance or Saga Custom RC are 2 big names for those parts. I suspect that would be more beneficial if running higher amps on a castle esc. You may want light weight (single pack) for the rocket.

It sounds like you are well on your way to a 100+ mph Arrma Typhon!

 

[arelee]

Hey Liberty.

I'll go ahead and order both the 26T and the 29T pinion gears.

Which diff. fluid would you suggest for this build, 1,000,000 or 2,000,000?

OK, I'll stay with the single 6s 5,000mAh battery with the existing ESC, and see what kind of speed I can get, (with both suggested pinion gears). Then I'll try parallel packs when I get a Castle ESC, (figuring in the added weight). If a single, 6s pack with the existing ESC is the final choice, nothing lost. I'll simply put the Castle ESC in the Limitless, (which arrived today) later on.

Thank you so much for the body mounting video! I was really stumped about that issue. It actually gave me a better plan regarding the rocket placement.

Again, you have been a big help! Thank you.

Check-out my new listing, avatar photo.