Kraton EXB CAMBER AND ACKERMAN BAR

[Soilhalo77]

Ok I’ve had my EXB KRATON a month now and so far I’ve spent a fortune trying to get right for what I thought would be brill as soon as I fitted the electrics.
Servo was bad so I bought a SAVOX 35kg 7.4v but steering was still weak so went through forum and YouTube and saw a vid,I think @bournemouthal RC fitting Cclips at the bottom of the servo saver. WORKING PERFECT!!! But now I’ve found that the Ackerman bar has up n down play . I checked all the screws multiple times and can’t find anything loose
Is this normal????
Also and I can’t find an answer for this anywhere but all vids I watch of @Rich Duperbash @RcDude81 Kevin Talbot and everyone else that I could mention the Camber on the front of the trucks seem to be perfectly angled and mine are over the top with negative camber
The only thing I can find is vids of people saying to cut bits off the Bottom arm and another guy doing the same but saying to put 3mm heat shrink on the dog bone to stop ware on the out drive cups
DOES ANYONE KNOW A WAY I CAN FIX THESE 2 little things without cutting up my new RC ??????
I thought about adding CClips to the top arm but realised that would pull the dog bone further out. So it has to be done at the bottom arm
I don’t know if the play in the Ackerman bar is normal (but I don’t think it is) and I don’t know what direction to go with the camber
Can anyone help me out please?
Thanks in advance if someone can help

 

[jkflow]

You should be at 1-2 degrees pending slop etc. That would be normal.

 

[L3phturn]

Its exactly the same as that. I just saw the glue on the tyre! Erm excuse that I had a small accident with a blocked tyre glue bottle, kinda went everywhereView attachment 125790View attachment 125791View attachment 125792View attachment 125793View attachment 125787View attachment 125788

Got ya you hit nail on the head with what experience im having, as the play actually isn't the Ackerman bar as I stated but its what you've described. The gap at the bottom which is where I was going to put something is tiny but as it travels up n out to the end of the Ackerman its exaggerated. So my thinking (as the saver side seems ok) was to either add a C,clip under it which would avoid and tearing down, but it may be too thick or unscrew from the bottom and slide a shim in there and lock it back down
whatdya think?

You are guessing. Take the wheels off, take the hubs and pivot balls apart and look at it. Take pictures. Until you do that we can't help much. How much slop is there when you try to tilt your wheels?

 

[Soilhalo77]

You are guessing. Take the wheels off, take the hubs and pivot balls apart and look at it. Take pictures. Until you do that we can't help much. How much slop is there when you try to tilt your wheels?

Sorry ive not had time to do anything yet. Ive had other stuff I needed to do as we just had snow here which doesn't happen often so Drone piloting had to take over. A shoot for renewable energy but in all seasons. Im not gonna be able to have a good look until Saturday when ive more time . right now ive got video to edit.
I will post a vid of the play I have in the steering ASAP

 

[Soilhalo77]

Hi, I finished the drone shoot today got home late. Decided as I need to work this out I better check back in on this thread I started as I do need advice here.
So I took the wheels off and took the front apart but it was too dark to get decent shots or video
So stuck it back together cos I loose things but what I did discover was the bottom pivot ball is screwed in tight so the red cap definitely needs to come off
I just installed some M2C rear outdrives and I checked when you move shocks up n down the dog bone sits right in the middle
Reason I say this is is because that’s exactly where they sit in the fronts right now
Anyway tomorrow I’ll take plenty of pics and a video of the movement in the steering so you guys can see exactly what I’m on about
1 problem, as I was tired from a week of being in the wind n the snow I didn’t change the torque settings on my screwdriver so I hit it at full power and stripped a screw on the top plate. I’m replacing everything with cap heads rather than buttons to reduce the risk of stripping screws accidentally anyway so it’s no biggy but I do think I’m going to need to take the top plate off to double check I installed the servo saver and everything correctly when I tightened the saver up with C,Clips

 

[nomis38]

I recently wadded up my exb ackerman, rebent fine.
Camber for me I was able to just remove the washer from the bottom and add it to the top. I've been thrashing the vehicle since and no issues of the cv's poppin.

 

[Soilhalo77]

I recently wadded up my exb ackerman, rebent fine.
Camber for me I was able to just remove the washer from the bottom and add it to the top. I've been thrashing the vehicle since and no issues of the cv's poppin.

I’ll be back on tomorrow after investigation with pics and vid. Haven’t been able to get out here in the north of England with a big snow storm hitting
Had it in the car park in the ice and a brand new lipo died on me luckily the manufacturer warrantied it when I sent them photos of the charger reading when I plugged it in and an hour later. Luckily the photos were time stamped.
But anyway I’ll be back to sorting other issues in the morning so I can get to the MTB/BMX Track

 

[SrC]

Both toe and camber are adjustable in the front.
They are trimming the arms to prevent the driveshafts from popping out, not to adjust camber but it obviously impacts it when done wrong. That can be corrected with shims or removing all of them.

^^^
Remove the lower Metal washer/shim. And use a shim at the top Pivot ball to bring your Camber close to Zero if need be. Sometimes just one side needs the shim to get L and R close in Camber. Works for me.

 

[Soilhalo77]

You are guessing. Take the wheels off, take the hubs and pivot balls apart and look at it. Take pictures. Until you do that we can't help much. How much slop is there when you try to tilt your wheels?

Ackerman bar movement

https://youtu.be/SqfLo66yCUs So heres where im at, heres the 2 links to youtube where ive put the play in the Ackerman bar which seems to be up n down only by about 1-2mm
The other pics included are Just where the dogbone is sitting and im no expert but obviously the further in it is (without causing restrictiction or being able to hit the drive hubs on a harder impact) is better as theres less chance of popping out
Thats just the screw i cant get a grip on to access the top plate. Sorry about the funny breathing I had a torch in my mouth while trying to film

 

[jkflow]

Oh wow there is something wrong. There should be no space between your support and your steering support plate thingy. This is not your Ackerman bar as an issue. Should be as tight as the other side with the servo saver.

 

[Liquid SSSnake]

I had to put shims under the bearing in the LH side of the bellcrank, it moved up and down like the first video.

Now my RH (servo saver side) was too tight it binds on the top plate, so I had to shim the top of the bearing.

 

[Soilhalo77]

I had to put shims under the bearing in the LH side of the bellcrank, it moved up and down like the first video.

Now my RH (servo saver side) was too tight it binds on the top plate, so I had to shim the top of the bearing.

That’s the idea I had but I think it’s got something to do with top plate so I need to remove that to make sure that everything is seated correctly but I’m having trouble as that screws in tight and I don’t wanna dremmel it. Thought it best that people with more experience with Arrmas (this being my first) see it before I go further
I e bought 3 different types of screw removal tools so hopefully I can get in and take a closer look
But this didn’t start happening until I shimmed the servo saver. Thing is that shouldn’t have any effect as the C,clips go under the spring so it shouldn’t change the geometry of any other part

Oh wow there is something wrong. There should be no space between your support and your steering support plate thingy. This is not your Ackerman bar as an issue. Should be as tight as the other side with the servo saver.

Saying Ackerman bar was a mistake in hindsight as that was the first thing I noticed when I started this thread so I kind jumped the gun a little, but also at the time the (it’s happened again right now) “opposite side of the servo saver,” the part name has gone out my head!

 

[jkflow]

Got it, you have to remove that top plate. Something is way off, I hope is not an assembly error from the factory.
To remove the screws, use heat, apply with a torch or something similar. The screw and threadlock needs to burn and break.

It is possible that the brace is incorrect, holding that top plate above as to where it should be. Should be absolutely flush with the steering bellcranks.
I know I do not need any shims or similar. From what I am seeing in the video it's not a shim issue either.
To be clear, this airgap shouldn't exist and that is what makes all of it move. Sometimes the center brace is caught right on the edge and prevents the entire plate from seating right.

One more, check where the brace is mounted. I bet you can see some light and its caught on the edge.
Can't tell from the video. You could loosen that screw and see if you can wedge it into position (if that is actually the cause).

 

[Soilhalo77]

Got it, you have to remove that top plate. Something is way off, I hope is not an assembly error from the factory.
To remove the screws, use heat, apply with a torch or something similar. The screw and threadlock needs to burn and break.

It is possible that the brace is incorrect, holding that top plate above as to where it should be. Should be absolutely flush with the steering bellcranks.
I know I do not need any shims or similar. From what I am seeing in the video it's not a shim issue either.
To be clear, this airgap shouldn't exist and that is what makes all of it move. Sometimes the center brace is caught right on the edge and prevents the entire plate from seating right.


View attachment 126770
One more, check where the brace is mounted. I bet you can see some light and its caught on the edge.
Can't tell from the video. You could loosen that screw and see if you can wedge it into position (if that is actually the cause).

View attachment 126771

When I took the top plate off the center brace wasn't snug, I do remember that. When putting it back together it wasn't until I tightened the screw you highlighted that it became tight.
So you think that the top plate basically hasn't been seated correctly yeah? And that what's causing issues and possibly why the steering was weak in the first place if its a defective part?

Its also kind of difficult being in way different time zones but I guess at least it gives me time to do something then explain results but having a conversation back n forth at same time is tricky

 

[jkflow]

Yes, pretty much. I'd take it apart and check it out. All that is your steering problem.
The brace should lock in like this:

The steering bellcrank with respect to the plate right above. Absolutely flush and no play.

 

[nomis38]

His front center brace looks butted up to the top plate fine. That slop you have there can be shimmed out, but both of mine have that slop, and both of mine have amazing steering.

So that's not your problem. Gotta be a saver issue. I find the v4 on up to be perfect and I don't shim it at all.

 

[Soilhalo77]

Yes, pretty much. I'd take it apart and check it out. All that is your steering problem.
The brace should lock in like this:
View attachment 126797


The steering bellcrank with respect to the plate right above. Absolutely flush and no play.

View attachment 126799

Right I can see what you mean, the back of the front brace should sit flush with top of the plate and mines slightly under like the cut out in the brace isn’t big enough or maybe it’s never been clicked down into place correctly but I had to really force it to sit back down and it was a nightmare to actually get it off
But @nomis38 , your saying you can either have that little bit play and it’s fine or you can shim it out? Which is what I was going to do by unscrewing from bottom of chassis, sliding a washer in on either side then screwing it back together which if you take a good look at it you see that the bottom is on a bushing or a bearing which when you lift the bell house you actually see it slide out of the housing so by adding that washer from the bottom (if needed) you would in fact stop that slop
Are we all following what I’m saying here?
but I do need to get that top plate off and see if that in fact is faulty or incorrectly seated first
Yes?

Yes, pretty much. I'd take it apart and check it out. All that is your steering problem.
The brace should lock in like this:
View attachment 126797


The steering bellcrank with respect to the plate right above. Absolutely flush and no play.

View attachment 126799

Is this bottom pic the left side of the top plate?

 

[nomis38]

Yes your correct it would fix the slop. I do know the slop is normal though so its something else imo. I don't think its the brace but it wouldnt hurt to make it be seated correctly

 

[Soilhalo77]

Got it, you have to remove that top plate. Something is way off, I hope is not an assembly error from the factory.
To remove the screws, use heat, apply with a torch or something similar. The screw and threadlock needs to burn and break.

It is possible that the brace is incorrect, holding that top plate above as to where it should be. Should be absolutely flush with the steering bellcranks.
I know I do not need any shims or similar. From what I am seeing in the video it's not a shim issue either.
To be clear, this airgap shouldn't exist and that is what makes all of it move. Sometimes the center brace is caught right on the edge and prevents the entire plate from seating right.


View attachment 126770
One more, check where the brace is mounted. I bet you can see some light and its caught on the edge.
Can't tell from the video. You could loosen that screw and see if you can wedge it into position (if that is actually the cause).

View attachment 126771

Where the red arrow is isn’t a gap that is the top plate. I hope I’m not confusing things here!

Yes your correct it would fix the slop. I do know the slop is normal though so its something else imo. I don't think its the brace but it wouldnt hurt to make it be seated correctly

Sorry dude you lost me, if you’re saying that what I’m saying is correct, what are you saying that I’ve issues with, like what do you mean by that? Apologies for being thick!

 

[nomis38]

Where the red arrow is isn’t a gap that is the top plate. I hope I’m not confusing things here!

Sorry dude you lost me, if you’re saying that what I’m saying is correct, what are you saying that I’ve issues with, like what do you mean by that? Apologies for being thick!

I was gonna say it looked flush to me.

 

[Soilhalo77]

I was gonna say it looked flush to me.

So what are you saying I’ve issues with or are? you saying just take it apart and check it all and decide if I want to take that slop out or not as my steering is bang on. It was just the play in it that got me thinking that something wasn’t quite right and it should all be tight