Infraction Build - Motor Advice

[Tatebowman124]

If this if your first time trying to go over 120mph I would stick with either a TP4070cm or 4080cm.
Then look to upgrade to a dual motors setup later. Most all of James McCoys setups are running these 2 motors. In fact almost all the guys up around 200 mph are running these 2 motors.

With a simple TP4070cm I hit 135 mph on just 3 cells in a 1/7 scale car.
You will need to learn about the car and data logging if you want to run high speeds. Many of us found running low cell 2s-4s helps you learn a lot about setups and understanding the data.


If the car was going 120 mph with a 12s setup and tried to go the same speed on a 8s setup, then yes the amperage would go up.

The problem is that in the end wattage is what matters.

I am going to use 3.375 volts per cell under a heavy load as the example here. This means top tier lipos and a very good throttle application with the correct gearing.

HW 12s setup
12s = 40.5v
40.5v * 250a = 10,125 watts

XLX2 8s setup
8s = 27v
27v * 600a = 16,200 watts

We have seen the XLX2 go beyond 600a but just using this as an example.

This is a XLX2 log running 3s in the 130+ mph speed range. Notice the amperage
View attachment 351626

wondering why the 4070? They are the long type correct? I am thinking about getting the smaller one so i can keep stock orientation and i will put custom battery mounting in.

 

[Moirae]

I’m waiting for some of the “credentialed” speed runners to try the HW G2 systems. Even the Max 5 is 12s capable now, and it’s *only* $220.00 It’s rated at 250a continuous with 1600a burst. Sensored, data logging, etc. And according to some it’s ok with 6-pole motors, but I’ll take that with a grain of salt as I’ve not yet seen anyone really push them north to 200mph.

I remember you had to disconnect the sensor wire to get it to run. Could you please elaborate on that? I’ll be running a sensored 5670 TP with Castle ESC on an upcoming build. I’d really like to run it in sensored mode. What quirks or issues did it cause exactly while running sensored? I wonder if the symptoms were caused by the motor being 6-pole and confusing the XLX2?

My sensor port got damaged somehow. I'm still salty af about it tbh but thankfully everything still work besides that. I've actually had bad luck with sensor ports, I've had 2 castle ports rip and 1 tp motor port.

 

[LibertyMKiii]

wondering why the 4070? They are the long type correct? I am thinking about getting the smaller one so i can keep stock orientation and i will put custom battery mounting in.

I have seen people go up around 150 mph with a TP4050 (measures 40x81mm)
I mention the 4070 and 4080 models because often people want the biggest and baddest, but the 4050 motor can take you to very high speeds.

I have been over 120 mph with the original spektrum 2050kv motor and it had alot more in it still. I ran out of road and was at 94% throttle.

 

[Tatebowman124]

I have seen people go up around 150 mph with a TP4050 (measures 40x81mm)
I mention the 4070 and 4080 models because often people want the biggest and baddest, but the 4050 motor can take you to very high speeds.

well, I do want the baddest. I'm still uncertain on what to do. Sounds like i'm going to end up with 3 or 4 builds eventually.

 

[cancelthefuture]

well, I do want the baddest. I'm still uncertain on what to do. Sounds like i'm going to end up with 3 or 4 builds eventually.

Don't get too caught up in what the highest competition is doing. There is a lot to learn between here and there.

 

[LibertyMKiii]

well, I do want the baddest. I'm still uncertain on what to do. Sounds like i'm going to end up with 3 or 4 builds eventually.

Look at what the top guys are doing and do the same. (not the dual motor setups, that comes later)
First thing is to ditch the battery trays and start customizing the layout to fit the big motors.

I would try to run over 100 mph first and see if your road is good enough for it. So many people build a car and then have no place to properly use it.

Setup and getting it all right is so important. Going fast is not as easy as it looks.
Crashes absolutely happen and they can cost you 1200.00 to 3000.00. You have to decide if you are going to be ok with that.
Big power 8s setups that are going over 160 mph eat up diff input bearings after 2-3 runs.

Raz's build series are very good and worth following for your first build.

 

[Moirae]

Don't get too caught up in what the highest competition is doing. There is a lot to learn between here and there.

Right? I probably own at least 75% of the motors talked about in this thread and I still haven't been above 113 mph

 

[cancelthefuture]

I’m waiting for some of the “credentialed” speed runners to try the HW G2 systems. Even the Max 5 is 12s capable now, and it’s *only* $220.00 It’s rated at 250a continuous with 1600a burst. Sensored, data logging, etc.

Haven't tried in a speed running application yet, but I've been pretty regularly hitting peaks of 350-380 amps in Outcast 8s with the 5690 motor and Max6 G2. I think the G2 Hobbywing systems have real potential, but I have a feeling Hobbywing has some hardline current limits in place to protect morons from blowing up their ESCs. It would be nice if they had a firmware option to turn all those limits off.

 

[LibertyMKiii]

Haven't tried in a speed running application yet, but I've been pretty regularly hitting peaks of 350-380 amps in Outcast 8s with the 5690 motor and Max6 G2. I think the G2 Hobbywing systems have real potential, but I have a feeling Hobbywing has some hardline current limits in place to protect morons from blowing up their ESCs. It would be nice if they had a firmware option to turn all those limits off.

That is exactly it. HW escs are excellent for trucks / bashers. They are extremely reliable. This reliability comes from power limiting, however its still plenty powerful for a bashing setup.
I just put the G2 4990 max 6 setup in my basher.

 

[cancelthefuture]

I just put the G2 4990 max 6 setup in my basher.

Max6 G2 is criminally cheap. It's downright offensive, they have Max6 with 4990 for 240 when Max8 with 4274 is 250! On Amain you can get the Max6 G2 with 4990 for 204 right now with their coupon NCF24, it makes me want to just pick one up to have as a spare

 

[Dan B.]

Haven't tried in a speed running application yet, but I've been pretty regularly hitting peaks of 350-380 amps in Outcast 8s with the 5690 motor and Max6 G2. I think the G2 Hobbywing systems have real potential, but I have a feeling Hobbywing has some hardline current limits in place to protect morons from blowing up their ESCs. It would be nice if they had a firmware option to turn all those limits off.

You know, I have big hopes for it.

That is exactly it. HW escs are excellent for trucks / bashers. They are extremely reliable. This reliability comes from power limiting, however it’s still plenty powerful for a bashing setup.
I just put the G2 4990 max 6 setup in my basher.

BUT, the “power limiting” aspect of the G2 is purely conjecture at this point until someone decides to actually do some hard-core pushing on this setup. We know the limitations of the G1, but this is now all new data to be had with the G2. I think a Max 5 G2 might have some serious potential. And now we have the data logging capability to verify it. Do us all a favor and go buy one. Install it in the speed runner of your choice, check the data logs, and let us know how it looks! We need you, man!

 

[LibertyMKiii]

You know, I have big hopes for it.

BUT, the “power limiting” aspect of the G2 is purely conjecture at this point until someone decides to actually do some hard-core pushing on this setup. We know the limitations of the G1, but this is now all new data to be had with the G2. I think a Max 5 G2 might have some serious potential. And now we have the data logging capability to verify it. Do us all a favor and go buy one. Install it in the speed runner of your choice, check the data logs, and let us know how it looks! We need you, man!

Well I have a G2 Max6 combo in my basher. Only problem is that I don't have a speed car at the moment. I have a boat that could test it soon as an alternative option. It is easy to load up the amperage on the RC boats.
A Max4 G2 would be interesting also (once they release it )

The other thing to question is are they measuring amperage the same? If a HW esc reads 300a is it really 220amps?
Hard to know without some high tech scientific equipment. I actually thing Castle's esc may read a little high on the data logs too.

 

[Moirae]

The only comparison I can make is in the XRT and Kraton 8s. I have 2 Kraton 8s, one is 12s with max 5 g2 and the other is 8s with xlx2. Different diff weights but the xlx2 kraton feels just as powerful as the 12s kraton and tbh I was super disappointed at first lol. I noticed similar with my xrt's. One xrt is 12s with max 5 g2 combo and the other is xlx2. The 12s xrt even has the bigger motor and the only real difference I felt was the weight of the tires between the two trucks,

I think the max 5 g2 even on 12s is a side grade to an xlx2. It's why I always go for at least the max 4 in all my 1/5th scale on road rigs. That extra 50 amps matters haha.

 

[cancelthefuture]

The only comparison I can make is in the XRT and Kraton 8s. I have 2 Kraton 8s, one is 12s with max 5 g2 and the other is 8s with xlx2. Different diff weights but the xlx2 kraton feels just as powerful as the 12s kraton and tbh I was super disappointed at first lol. I noticed similar with my xrt's. One xrt is 12s with max 5 g2 combo and the other is xlx2. The 12s xrt even has the bigger motor and the only real difference I felt was the weight of the tires between the two trucks,

I think the max 5 g2 even on 12s is a side grade to an xlx2. It's why I always go for at least the max 4 in all my 1/5th scale on road rigs. That extra 50 amps matters haha.

Preposterous!

 

[Tatebowman124]

I have seen people go up around 150 mph with a TP4050 (measures 40x81mm)
I mention the 4070 and 4080 models because often people want the biggest and baddest, but the 4050 motor can take you to very high speeds.

I have been over 120 mph with the original spektrum 2050kv motor and it had alot more in it still. I ran out of road and was at 94% throttle.

2250KV As well as 8mm shaft?

 

[LibertyMKiii]

2250KV As well as 8mm shaft?

Yeah you really want to stick with the 8mm shaft so that you can swap pinions and spurs saving you some $$$
I spent a small fortune in gears

2250kv is a very good KV when planning to run 8s eventually.
It will work great when getting started on 3s-6s power too

 

[Tatebowman124]

Yeah you really want to stick with the 8mm shaft so that you can swap pinions and spurs saving you some $$$
I spent a small fortune in gears

2250kv is a very good KV when planning to run 8s eventually.
It will work great when getting started on 3s-6s power too

should i go lower kV?

 

[cancelthefuture]

should i go lower kV?

You said you still wanna bash right? 2250 is not a great kv for bashing unless you stick to 4s or 6s and even then it's probably gonna get warm so get a heatsink and fans for it.

 

[Tatebowman124]

You said you still wanna bash right? 2250 is not a great kv for bashing unless you stick to 4s or 6s and even then it's probably gonna get warm so get a heatsink and fans for it.

Yes. It will mostly be for just sliding around and getting sideways.

 

[Dan B.]

Yes. It will mostly be for just sliding around and getting sideways.

If you stayed with the 2250 (I would) you can always gear down a bit for your bash sessions. Even then, 4s would be really fun, I’m sure. But still, mos def run a heatsink and fans on the motor like @cancelthefuture said. They’ll keep your motor temps much lower.