Infraction Build - Motor Advice

[Diem Turner]

If he can get it with a 30mm shaft, he could flip the pinion and make it work with a center diff. I figured with all that kit he's buying that a spool wouldn't put him over budget. If I'm honest, with all that kit I think my mind had already checked off the spool box as a given.

@Tatebowman124 put a spool on your shopping list. That's kind of a must have as the diff has painfully few gearing options.

 

[Tatebowman124]

What about the 8mm shaft being incompatible with lining up the pinion to the spur on a center diff?

So in my scorched cart I have the titanium drive shafts and spool complete set. I was hoping this would take care of this problem.

45k and under is where you wanna keep it. 1356KV in free air is 45,561 with the batteries at 33.6V. So that's absolute maximum which the motor should never reach under real world driving conditions.

Would there be a better ESC to pair with the TP motor? I am completely open to suggestions. I just know a little bit about the castle items, so that is my baseline, i guess. I haven't looked into any other escs.

 

[Diem Turner]

So in my scorched cart I have the titanium drive shafts and spool complete set. I was hoping this would take care of this problem.

Would there be a better ESC to pair with the TP motor? I am completely open to suggestions. I just know a little bit about the castle items, so that is my baseline, i guess. I haven't looked into any other escs.

Castle works fine with TP motors, you just have to take some KV limits into consideration. As far as I know, there's nothing that comes close to the XLX2 in terms of performance that's even remotely in the same price category. There's a reason why all of the world record holders (with the exception of Nic Case but probably only because the XLX2 didn't exist back then, he did however, use a Castle ESC nonetheless) run XLX2 ESCs. I've said it before and I'll say it again, as of present day in the current year, the XLX2 is in a class of one when it comes to ESCs. I'd love to see some competition for it at its $250 price point but seeing as how no one can even match it for 2-4x the cost says a lot imho.

 

[LibertyMKiii]

+1 for a speed runner nothing beats the XLX2.
Look at every speed run of 175-222 mph. All run the XLX2 ESC.

 

[Tatebowman124]

Castle works fine with TP motors, you just have to take some KV limits into consideration. As far as I know, there's nothing that comes close to the XLX2 in terms of performance that's even remotely in the same price category. There's a reason why all of the world record holders (with the exception of Nic Case but probably only because the XLX2 didn't exist back then, he did however, use a Castle ESC nonetheless) run XLX2 ESCs. I've said it before and I'll say it again, as of present day in the current year, the XLX2 is in a class of one when it comes to ESCs. I'd love to see some competition for it at its $250 price point but seeing as how no one can even match it for 2-4x the cost says a lot imho.

I will take your suggestion and run the XLX2 and the 6D. I would rather not risk the ESC. Thank you for all the info. I think we have found a build solution.

Also, What about the V1/V2 option. What is the one body can vs 2 body can?

 

[Diem Turner]

I will take your suggestion and run the XLX2 and the 6D. I would rather not risk the ESC. Thank you for all the info. I think we have found a build solution.

Also, What about the V1/V2 option. What is the one body can vs 2 body can?

Glad I could be of service.

Could you rephrase the question? I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

 

[Tatebowman124]

Glad I could be of service.

Could you rephrase the question? I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

It has this can style on the site. It asks if I want 1body can or 2 body can. V!/V2. I don't know what it means.

https://www.tppowerusa.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=20_27_63&product_id=67

 

[cancelthefuture]

+1 for a speed runner nothing beats the XLX2.
Look at every speed run of 175-222 mph. All run the XLX2 ESC.

Didn't raz just hit 219 with MMX8s?

 

[Diem Turner]

View attachment 351489
It has this can style on the site. It asks if I want 1body can or 2 body can. V!/V2. I don't know what it means.

https://www.tppowerusa.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=20_27_63&product_id=67

Oh that. There are three different versions (of which, apparently, only two are available). The V1 has a shorter can and the V3 has a 35mm bolt pattern (which you definitely don't want but not to worry, the V3 isn't available anyways):

Didn't raz just hit 219 with MMX8s?

Perhaps with four of them in his quad, yes.

 

[cancelthefuture]

Perhaps with four of them in his quad, yes.

Well sure but a lot of the other 200s are multiples of XLX2

 

[Tatebowman124]

Oh that. There are three different versions (of which, apparently, only two are available). The V1 has a shorter can and the V3 has a 35mm bolt pattern (which you definitely don't want but not to worry, the V3 isn't available anyways):
View attachment 351505

Perhaps with four of them in his quad, yes.

do you know what the difference is between V1/V2?

 

[Diem Turner]

do you know what the difference is between V1/V2?

Yes. The length and diameter of the cans are different.

Well sure but a lot of the other 200s are multiples of XLX2

Yes, this is true. What's amazing is how much better the efficiency gets the more motors/ESCs you add. The XLX2 can sustain higher amp loads than the MMX8S which is more important the fewer motors you have. As you multiply the power systems, this levels the playing field so to speak as it brings the current draw down into more manageable realms. I think Raz ran a 185 or 190, thereabouts, with the quad pulling a mere 324A so you knew there was still headroom. The XLX2 loses its advantage in these kinds of setups, demonstrated by how slim the margin is between an XLX2 quad and an MMX8S quad. To be fair, Raz is doing this in a stock length chassis where as Dave of Scorched RC is running a car with probably twice the real estate and there's only three or four mph between them. Raz is even sharing batteries between two ESCs whereas David has the room for four complete power system.


I think to this day James is the only person to have pulled 200mph on a single motor. And his WR is with a dual if memory serves.

 

[Moirae]

1460kv is fine with xlx2 and I've never had a problem. I've run two 6 pole motors with that kv in different sizes and both worked great. Still running the sensored 1720 kv unsensored without any problems on 8s too tho I haven't pushed it pass 100 mph it handles 8s bashes fine.

 

[Dan B.]

Castle works fine with TP motors, you just have to take some KV limits into consideration. As far as I know, there's nothing that comes close to the XLX2 in terms of performance that's even remotely in the same price category. There's a reason why all of the world record holders (with the exception of Nic Case but probably only because the XLX2 didn't exist back then, he did however, use a Castle ESC nonetheless) run XLX2 ESCs. I've said it before and I'll say it again, as of present day in the current year, the XLX2 is in a class of one when it comes to ESCs. I'd love to see some competition for it at its $250 price point but seeing as how no one can even match it for 2-4x the cost says a lot imho.

I’m waiting for some of the “credentialed” speed runners to try the HW G2 systems. Even the Max 5 is 12s capable now, and it’s *only* $220.00 It’s rated at 250a continuous with 1600a burst. Sensored, data logging, etc. And according to some it’s ok with 6-pole motors, but I’ll take that with a grain of salt as I’ve not yet seen anyone really push them north to 200mph.

1460kv is fine with xlx2 and I've never had a problem. I've run two 6 pole motors with that kv in different sizes and both worked great. Still running the sensored 1720 kv unsensored without any problems on 8s too tho I haven't pushed it pass 100 mph it handles 8s bashes fine.

I remember you had to disconnect the sensor wire to get it to run. Could you please elaborate on that? I’ll be running a sensored 5670 TP with Castle ESC on an upcoming build. I’d really like to run it in sensored mode. What quirks or issues did it cause exactly while running sensored? I wonder if the symptoms were caused by the motor being 6-pole and confusing the XLX2?

 

[LibertyMKiii]

I’m waiting for some of the “credentialed” speed runners to try the HW G2 systems. Even the Max 5 is 12s capable now, and it’s *only* $220.00 It’s rated at 250a continuous with 1600a burst. Sensored, data logging, etc. And according to some it’s ok with 6-pole motors, but I’ll take that with a grain of salt as I’ve not yet seen anyone really push them north to 200mph.

I remember you had to disconnect the sensor wire to get it to run. Could you please elaborate on that? I’ll be running a sensored 5670 TP with Castle ESC on an upcoming build. I’d really like to run it in sensored mode. What quirks or issues did it cause exactly while running sensored? I wonder if the symptoms were caused by the motor being 6-pole and confusing the XLX2?

I don't forsee the G2 series doing anything big, but will be more capable than the original version of the ESCs.
The continuous rating of 250a is just not enough to go really fast. That sort of amperage would keep you in the 100-130 mph range, which is great but not XLX2 territory.

 

[Dales396lt4]

Just curious is the 250 amp continuous at 12 S if so, the amperage would be much higher at 8S am I getting this right?

 

[LibertyMKiii]

View attachment 351489
It has this can style on the site. It asks if I want 1body can or 2 body can. V!/V2. I don't know what it means.

https://www.tppowerusa.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=20_27_63&product_id=67

If this if your first time trying to go over 120mph I would stick with either a TP4070cm or 4080cm.
Then look to upgrade to a dual motors setup later. Most all of James McCoys setups are running these 2 motors. In fact almost all the guys up around 200 mph are running these 2 motors.

With a simple TP4070cm I hit 135 mph on just 3 cells in a 1/7 scale car.
You will need to learn about the car and data logging if you want to run high speeds. Many of us found running low cell 2s-4s helps you learn a lot about setups and understanding the data.

Just curious is the 250 amp continuous at 12 S if so, the amperage would be much higher at 8S am I getting this right?

If the car was going 120 mph with a 12s setup and tried to go the same speed on a 8s setup, then yes the amperage would go up.

The problem is that in the end wattage is what matters.

I am going to use 3.375 volts per cell under a heavy load as the example here. This means top tier lipos and a very good throttle application with the correct gearing.

HW 12s setup
12s = 40.5v
40.5v * 250a = 10,125 watts

XLX2 8s setup
8s = 27v
27v * 600a = 16,200 watts

We have seen the XLX2 go beyond 600a but just using this as an example.

This is a XLX2 log running 3s in the 130+ mph speed range. Notice the amperage

 

[Dan B.]

If this if your first time trying to go over 120mph I would stick with either a TP4070cm or 4080cm.
Then look to upgrade to a dual motors setup later. Most all of James McCoys setups are running these 2 motors. In fact almost all the guys up around 200 mph are running these 2 motors.

With a simple TP4070cm I hit 135 mph on just 3 cells in a 1/7 scale car.
You will need to learn about the car and data logging if you want to run high speeds. Many of us found running low cell 2s-4s helps you learn a lot about setups and understanding the data.


If the car was going 120 mph with a 12s setup and tried to go the same speed on a 8s setup, then yes the amperage would go up.

The problem is that in the end wattage is what matters.

I am going to use 3.375 volts per cell under a heavy load as the example here. This means top tier lipos and a very good throttle application with the correct gearing.

HW 12s setup
12s = 40.5v
40.5v * 250a = 10,125 watts

XLX2 8s setup
8s = 27v
27v * 600a = 16,200 watts

We have seen the XLX2 go beyond 600a but just using this as an example.

This is a XLX2 log running 3s in the 130+ mph speed range. Notice the amperage
View attachment 351626

Any idea what the max amps are you can expect from an MMX8S? I know the software doesn’t actually display it past a certain point on the logs?

 

[LibertyMKiii]

Any idea what the max amps are you can expect from an MMX8S? I know the software doesn’t actually display it past a certain point on the logs?

I had pulled 399 a on it. Does it go beyond that number but does not log it? I don't really know, but I can say that going from a MMX8s to XLX2 I picked up some significant speed. With this and running significantly cooler, and less ripple voltage issues.... I always recommend the XLX2 over the MMX8s.

I was doing 2s speed runs and went from 85-89mph up to 100+ instantly. I maxed out the MMX8s around 89 mph on 2s and maxed the XLX2 at 114 mph for my specific motor and lipos. (That was different cars and each setup was different between the motors and lipos, but still I pushed both to the limits.)

 

[BudUMfan]

This thread is a little over my head but enjoying the technical aspects of the process of voltage. Interesting stuff gentlemen