Talion Making a +70mph basher - Arrma Talion

[jjl5590]

Hi guys,

I've got an Arrma Talion but I don't want to keep changing pinions just to go fast. I would like to upgrade the electronics so as to allow +70mph on-road without having to change the pinion to use off-road/grass etc. Then maybe +80mph on-road with a pinion change. I'd like to keep the costs as low as possible.

I've got a Turnigy Graphene 6s 75c lipo.


For the ESC, I was thinking one of the following. Anything more powerful such as a Max 5 and XLX will be physically too big and too expensive:

Hobbywing Max 6 <---- Leaning towards this
Redcat Hexfly 6
ZTW 1/8 Beast Pro 220A
ZTW 1/5 Beast Pro SL 200A (too big)

I'm also thinking about buying this SAGA 50v 4100 Cap Pack, it's probably overkill but better safe than sorry:


For the motor, I'm not really too sure. I was thinking one of the following. There isn't much clearance between the chassis and the stock motor, so I'd need an aftermarket motor mount if I wanted something bigger. Therefore I'd like to stick with the same 42mm diameter as the stock motor. I also have a Yeah Racing full heatsink which further reduces the clearance to the chassis:

Castle 1518 1800kv (fake)
Rocket 4076 2000kv
HobbyStar 4092 1730kv <---- Leaning towards this
X-Team 3500W 1600kv
X-Team XTI-4082 2200kv
Leopard 4092 1730kv

If I wanted a bigger (thicker) motor, would this Hot Racing Motor Mount offer any more chassis clearance?


Sorry for such a long post! If anyone has any experience with the options I've listed, I'd be very eager to hear opinions!

 

[LibertyMKiii]

I think your info so far using a Max6 ESC with a larger motor like the 4092 in the 17xx KV range is pretty spot on.
While larger motors dissipate more heat and lower KV helps also big motors still get hot during hard use. So expect that you will need a motor heat sink/fan combo for bashing use. Other than that you should be good to go with those described setups.

I realize this isn't a super cheap motor but TP motors are great and I highly recommend this one as a match to your desired setup:
http://www.tppowerusa.com/motors/in-stock/tp-40xx-series-1/tp-4060-1750-kv

-Liberty

 

[PaPa Thorn]

If I bashed at 70mph all I'd be doing is lighting money on fire.

 

[RC DUDE81]

The Hobbystar 1730kv with the Max6 or 8 is a KILLER setup. Like
LibertyMKiii said, It will still get hot under hard bashing without a heat sink/fan. I run that setup in my old Kraton with a 18 tooth pinion. During the summer months, She still needs a cool down in between packs or even half way through a pack. She won't run anything close to 70, but it has loads or torque! ?

 

[jjl5590]

Thanks for the replies. I've got a Yeah Racing heatsink/fan combo so that should help keep the motor cool.

@RC DUDE81 I'm surprised you had heating issues with that high power setup and low gearing. Doesn't fill me with confidence for what I'm looking for.

I do like the TP motors but they're too expensive

@CofNailz is that because the Talion isn't up to the challange? Diffs, driveshafts etc?

 

[bicketybam]

The Hobbystar 1730kv with the Max6 or 8 is a KILLER setup. Like
LibertyMKiii said, It will still get hot under hard bashing without a heat sink/fan. I run that setup in my old Kraton with a 18 tooth pinion. During the summer months, She still needs a cool down in between packs or even half way through a pack. She won't run anything close to 70, but it has loads or torque! ?

I run it in my Kraton as well. No fans needed. I never make it long enough to get hot ?

 

[jjl5590]

I run it in my Kraton as well. No fans needed. I never make it long enough to get hot ?

What happens?

 

[Megasty]

Thanks for the replies. I've got a Yeah Racing heatsink/fan combo so that should help keep the motor cool.

@RC DUDE81 I'm surprised you had heating issues with that high power setup and low gearing. Doesn't fill me with confidence for what I'm looking for.

I do like the TP motors but they're too expensive

@CofNailz is that because the Talion isn't up to the challange? Diffs, driveshafts etc?

Bashing & speed are mutually exclusive. The faster you run the more level your surface need to be. The Talion can easily do 70 out the box but jumping at that speed also involves landing. The forces that come with that will wreck the car even with the most planted landings. Even running over rough terrain at that speed has its problems. Divots & rocks can lead to high speed tumbles which nothing can survive.

 

[jjl5590]

Well I wouldn't expect it to go at 70mph off road and on grass, but I'd like the option of being able to take it onto the pavement in the same session and doing 70

 

[Megasty]

What happens?

I have an 8s X-Maxx motor in this:

With a 22t pinion on 8s, it can hit 75, which I have only done on terrain crusher tires. I do bash the thing but I can get trigger happy. It doesn't end well to say the least:

. . .& that was from one tumble down a hill. I think the hill helped the speed since I could get the thing to slow down at all b4 finding a well-placed divot. 14 cartwheels later. . .

 

[bicketybam]

What happens?

Bad things, man. Bad things! ?

I bash hard and usually don't make it to LVC. The setup is fine. It's the driver ??

 

[jjl5590]

It's annoying that the Tekno ET48 has very limited motor options

 

[Jimbobjr]

It’s better just to save up a while and get a second car for the street use. Or buy a second m2c motor slide and keep your street motor and pinion on it. Still have to change tires though... Bashing at speed my car does not get hot because it is broken before the pack is done.
I have a m2c motor mount and a 4985 motor on its way here. It will be close as to fitting without a shim under the mount for can clearance, I’ll let you know.
If you get a setup that will go 70mph bashing without heat issues by all means let us know what it is. I really don’t think it’s possible without cooling down every few minutes.

 

[jjl5590]

I don't understand what's difficult about it though. The stock motor and esc can do 70mph on-road without any additional cooling. So, if I upgrade the esc and motor, add some cooling, and use equivalent 70mph gearing, what's so difficult?

 

[Jimbobjr]

I hope you are right, the talion is nice and light until you put the bigger heavier motor and esc and start breaking stuff, than it needs some front end protection, maybe thicker towers, chassis braces...next thing you have a heavy over heating truck. At least this is what I experience when gearing up...

 

[PaPa Thorn]

Thanks for the replies. I've got a Yeah Racing heatsink/fan combo so that should help keep the motor cool.

@RC DUDE81 I'm surprised you had heating issues with that high power setup and low gearing. Doesn't fill me with confidence for what I'm looking for.

I do like the TP motors but they're too expensive

@CofNailz is that because the Talion isn't up to the challange? Diffs, driveshafts etc?

No, not because there's anything wrong with the rig, that I know of, there's just something wrong with me.

 

[Mr.Duke]

I've been running the Hobbywing Max6 / 4985 1650kv combo in my Outcast and it's definitely got the power to push a Talion to 80+mph.
So far I've gone 73.4 on backflips with a 22t and the truck set up for high speed bashing.
https://www.arrmaforum.com/threads/71-4mph-outcast-on-6s.12035/

I don't change anything from hard off-road bashing to speed runs.

Temps with two 30mm fans on the motor are in the 140's after a full 6s pack.

My only complaint is that I'm on my 3rd ESC fan in 3 weeks. 1st two broke a single fan blade off after hard landings while bashing.
Working on a permanent fix for that issue.

 

[jjl5590]

@Mr.Duke That's exactly what I'm looking for!! You get the idea. Is that a hobbywing motor? How does it fit? I'm not sure if it would fit in the Talion, there's only a few mm of space between stock motor and chassis

 

[jjl5590]

After a lot of research I think I've decided on getting the ZTW 1/8 Beast Pro 220A esc, as it's cheap, small and powerful (can handle 220A).

And the Leopard 4092 1730kv motor as it's cheap(ish), big and has a smooth can, so my Yeah Racing heatsink can sit flush with the motor body.


Edit: Just realised the mounting holes on the Leopard are M3, the stock BLX motor is M4. I don't want to start messing around trying to tap some new holes. Back to the drawing board

 

[RC DUDE81]

No, not because there's anything wrong with the rig, that I know of, there's just something wrong with me.

Well it's mainly the hot summers she still runs warm. I bash pretty hard with a lot of full throttle passes and jumps so she definitely gets warm. During the winter it's no prob with that setup!?