Kraton New person looking for advice...

[SrC]

Bickety: Did you get a visit from the Defense Intelligence Agency?

I think I have found a solution that Arrma and Horizon will go for. I doubt they will give me a partial refund on a broken car and used batteries, instructions for RTRs do not exist... so I sent HH another E-Mail providing yet another option that would make me happy (I've given them several) which is to let me exchange the Kraton for an equal value kit car from another company. I like Arrma cars, and REALLY want a Typhon 6S someday... but your first car has to be a kit car. I'm thinking that they will at least do that for me, and I'd be thrilled with a kit car that actually came with instructions.

A kit in any flavor/brand will cost you more than an Arrma 6S which is what I feel you are aspiring towards yet with limited funds. But if you want to spend a month or two building, I would recommend a Tekno brand kit. I have the MT410 which would be equivalent in dimensions to the Notorious 6s. The Instructions are Flawless and I think you would like it. Download the MT410 Tekno manual first before deciding. As a kit builder I always download and read the instruction manuals of various kits "Before" I buy. Check reviews and watch the builds first. But in the end if you like the manual of a particular kit ,that will be your choice. Tekno has some of the best manuals in the RC industry and they put a lot of money into writing their manuals. My opinion. Comparing various manuals of kits will really separate the men from the boys. Remember that a kit always costs you more in the end. But I feel you get a better end product. From experience.....

 

[bicketybam]

 

[Kavik Kang]

SrC, thank you very much for that. That was actually EXCACTLY what I will want to know if HH is willing to exchange this for a kit. Now I know I want something Tekno because it has the best instructions, or at least very good ones. That's what a new person needs. I really should have thought of that ahead of time, that I was WANTING this to take up as much of my time as it could. I should have been wanting a kit from the beginning just for that, but have also been wanting to do RC stuff for 35 years so just wanted the running car. Like I said, I never would have imagined that no form of instructions at all exist for RTR cars. Especially with Arrma's "easy to work on, modular construction" thing. It's shocking too me that that they don't have even a simple general guide for how their modular designs generally come apart. What Arrma should really do is talk to some 30+ year computer game industry veterans about the nature of their audience and the importance of "tutorials". Many people who try this WANT to learn how to work on the cars, that is a big part of the appeal... and then no instructions at all are being given too them. You call this a "dying hobby"... this is a big part of the reason why. I am a simulation designer, not a marketing expert. There are experts in the computer game industry who could help Arrma in particular, with the simple modular "anyone can do this" design.

But, just from me... they should have a general guide for their modular components generally function together. Then a specific guide for each specific car. Just the breakdown and putting together of the major components, not rebuilding transmissions, etc. Then they should also do a YouTube video of every car, showing an expert quickly taking it all apart in the right order, the major components, and then putting it all back in the right order. Just this alone would bring a huge number of new people into this.

As for me, I'd rather have a car than the bow. If it takes me a month to build a kit, that's great, that's a whole lot to do with the computer off. I don't mind at all if an equivalent value kit car isn't as nice as a Kraton 4S, the point is having the instructions to learn how to do it. As things stand now kit cars are for new people, RTRs are only for people who already know what they are doing because there are no instructions at all for them anywhere in the world. I know that hobby businesses are usually very good about returns and exchanges compared to most other businesses, so I am not too worried about this. I'm pretty sure HH will at least let me exchange it for a kit car that I can actually use.

And, yes, after watching RC car videos for over a month my RC dream car is a V4 Typhon 6S... but I need a kit car first to know enough to have one, and to learn to drive well enough to drive one

 

[chevys10zr2003]

SrC, thank you very much for that. That was actually EXCACTLY what I will want to know if HH is willing to exchange this for a kit. Now I know I want something Tekno because it has the best instructions, or at least very good ones. That's what a new person needs. I really should have thought of that ahead of time, that I was WANTING this to take up as much of my time as it could. I should have been wanting a kit from the beginning just for that, but have also been wanting to do RC stuff for 35 years so just wanted the running car. Like I said, I never would have imagined that no form of instructions at all exist for RTR cars. Especially with Arrma's "easy to work on, modular construction" thing. It's shocking too me that that they don't have even a simple general guide for how their modular designs generally come apart. What Arrma should really do is talk to some 30+ year computer game industry veterans about the nature of their audience and the importance of "tutorials". Many people who try this WANT to learn how to work on the cars, that is a big part of the appeal... and then no instructions at all are being given too them. You call this a "dying hobby"... this is a big part of the reason why. I am a simulation designer, not a marketing expert. There are experts in the computer game industry who could help Arrma in particular, with the simple modular "anyone can do this" design.

But, just from me... they should have a general guide for their modular components generally function together. Then a specific guide for each specific car. Just the breakdown and putting together of the major components, not rebuilding transmissions, etc. Then they should also do a YouTube video of every car, showing an expert quickly taking it all apart in the right order, the major components, and then putting it all back in the right order. Just this alone would bring a huge number of new people into this.

As for me, I'd rather have a car than the bow. If it takes me a month to build a kit, that's great, that's a whole lot to do with the computer off. I don't mind at all if an equivalent value kit car isn't as nice as a Kraton 4S, the point is having the instructions to learn how to do it. As things stand now kit cars are for new people, RTRs are only for people who already know what they are doing because there are no instructions at all for them anywhere in the world. I know that hobby businesses are usually very good about returns and exchanges compared to most other businesses, so I am not too worried about this. I'm pretty sure HH will at least let me exchange it for a kit car that I can actually use.

And, yes, after watching RC car videos for over a month my RC dream car is a V4 Typhon 6S... but I need a kit car first to know enough to have one, and to learn to drive well enough to drive one

For the most part RTR cars are for the newbies as they normally want to drive it now and kits are more for the experienced people as they tend to have all the electronics already laying around to finish them. Also, most experienced people already have numerous other rigs so it doesn't bother them that they have to wait a week or two to play with their new toy where a new person doesn't have anything to play with so they want it ready now.

I do agree though that I wish all RTR came with step by step assembly instructions like kits do. I'm in the process of rebuilding my Senton 6S and am using my Tekno SCT410.3 instructions as a guideline for the order to assemble things while using the Arrma exploded views with all the parts and part numbers.

Let us know how Horizon responds to letting you trade in the Kraton. I would honestly be extremely amazed if they let you trade it in on something else. If you would have bought it from a hobby shop, I could maybe see the hobby shop doing it, but I doubt Horizon or Arrma will. Let us know either way.

 

[Atom #28]

Kavik Kang: I hate to be "that guy", but here I go:

At the very beginning of this thread I urged you, almost begged you to just go with the 6s. I bought a 4s Outcast. Its fun to drive....when its not broken. Mine broke VERY quickly (first run, super lame bump into a rock. Seriously, not a crash....a bump....), and now my truck has been on a shelf for 2 months, waiting for parts that are apparently on backorder everywhere. Yeah, I'm pissed off about that, but....

... there's a silver lining. And I hope you can find a way to see it like I do:

During my down time (aka, when the wife and kid are asleep) I decided to convert my Outcast to a long wheelbase Kraton chassis. This involved a lot more than I initially thought it would, but gave me the opportunity to tear most of the truck apart and reassemble it. You acknowledged somewhere in this thread that building, tinkering, rebuilding, and modding are all parts of the hobby. So DO IT! This is my first hobby grade RC, too. I am not a mechanic, but I can spin an allen wrench left and right. That's all it takes, man. Don't be afraid to pull out some screws, think about what you're trying to accomplish, do some problem solving... The more I work with my truck, the more I understand its strengths and weaknesses. This leads to a better ability to diagnose and fix issues down the road.

Above all else, try to relax. It's supposed to be fun!

 

[Kavik Kang]

RTR are not for new people. This hobby's mistaken belief that they are is a part of the reason you call it a "dying hobby". The cars don't last a week before something breaks. You can't own one if you can't fix it, and newbies can't fix it when no instructions exist in the world. RTRs are only for experienced people, newbies MUST buy kits. That is how things currently stand in this business. RTR cars are NOT for new people, they are not ready for an RTR car where NO instructions exist ANYWHERE in the world. Those cars are ONLY for experts.

Kits are the "introductory" cars for new people. The industry would have to make changes for this to not be true.

Atom: I don't think that was me, I already had the car before I ever posted here. But I couldn't afford a 6S, I was barely able to get this. I WANT to work on the car, that's part of why I got it. But no instructions exist anywhere in the world, so I can't.

 

[Atom #28]

Atom: I don't think that was me, I already had the car before I ever posted here. But I couldn't afford a 6S, I was barely able to get this. I WANT to work on the car, that's part of why I got it. But no instructions exist anywhere in the world, so I can't.

I hear ya. You're right, I gave that advice to another user. Just don't let it get you down. You'll be surprised at how logically it all comes apart and goes back together once you get into it. I would never advise another man to drink beer, because that means there's less beer for me.....but I will say that these trucks are a lot more fun to tinker with when I have a nice cold one on the bench.

Side note: ever thought about getting an RC rock crawler? Slower pace, less prone to crazy breakages.... I love my crawler as much as I love my basher.

 

[SrC]

For the most part RTR cars are for the newbies as they normally want to drive it now and kits are more for the experienced people as they tend to have all the electronics already laying around to finish them. Also, most experienced people already have numerous other rigs so it doesn't bother them that they have to wait a week or two to play with their new toy where a new person doesn't have anything to play with so they want it ready now.

I do agree though that I wish all RTR came with step by step assembly instructions like kits do. I'm in the process of rebuilding my Senton 6S and am using my Tekno SCT410.3 instructions as a guideline for the order to assemble things while using the Arrma exploded views with all the parts and part numbers.

Let us know how Horizon responds to letting you trade in the Kraton. I would honestly be extremely amazed if they let you trade it in on something else. If you would have bought it from a hobby shop, I could maybe see the hobby shop doing it, but I doubt Horizon or Arrma will. Let us know either way.

I noticed Axial was a kit company for a while but as of late they went RTR as well as kit. Since their Scx10.2 for instance was available as kit, the kit manual would provide the needed info for the equivalent RTR chassis. That's just an example. Arrma has never made a kit, so they never had an available assembly manual. But Arrma 6S rigs are so similar to the well known 1/8 scale Racing Truggies seen in Race venues for so many years that they are truly easy to work on versus a Traxxas E Revo for instance. They are night and day different. Sorry I mentioned Trxxxass. Couldn't help myself. LOL

 

[nino]

Side note: ever thought about getting an RC rock crawler? Slower pace, less prone to crazy breakages.... I love my crawler as much as I love my basher.

And most scale crawlers are available as kits! They also run cheaper batteries and aren't expensive to run if you don't get competitive. You can dump a couple Kratons worth of money into one easily, but don't have to.

 

[Kavik Kang]

I am really hoping that HH will just let me send them the car back for some type of kit with instructions that would use the same batteries I got with the Kraton. I would think that they would do that since it broke within two days and there are no instructions available for how to fix it... which anyone would reasonably expect that there would be.

This won't happen, but if Arrma just put out the kind of "tutorial picture guide" and YouTube guide for the Kraton 4S as a start on doing that for all of their cars, they could have the Kraton 4S ones done in a few days! It really is that fast and easy to do... then I'd love to just keep this.

I could easily figure this out. It's not that I can't figure it out, it's that it will take me weeks or months on internet with this and other things that will happen later and I don't want to be on the computer. That is the whole point. I just want to be confident that I know how the car comes apart and goes back together and not be taking apart things that don't need to be taken apart in an "easy to work on modular design". They don't tell you what that "easy to work on modular design" is...

 

[SrC]

And most scale crawlers are available as kits! They also run cheaper batteries and aren't expensive to run if you don't get competitive. You can dump a couple Kratons worth of money into one easily, but don't have to.

Crawlers are more forgiving and yes you can dump some serious money into them. Like I did. But they just don't break like the other types of rigs, unless you are crawling up the side of a 100+ foot 62 degree incline cliff and lose your line fast. Major carnage. LOL. Happened just once. Never again.

 

[stuartd]

RTR are not for new people. This hobby's mistaken belief that they are is a part of the reason you call it a "dying hobby". The cars don't last a week before something breaks. You can't own one if you can't fix it, and newbies can't fix it when no instructions exist in the world. RTRs are only for experienced people, newbies MUST buy kits. That is how things currently stand in this business. RTR cars are NOT for new people, they are not ready for an RTR car where NO instructions exist ANYWHERE in the world. Those cars are ONLY for experts.

Kits are the "introductory" cars for new people. The industry would have to make changes for this to not be true.

RTR are fine for newcomers.

I got my first RC, a Talion, in September last year, followed by a Notorious then a Typhon.
So far I’ve broken a front steering hub on the Talion because I side swiped a high kerb at about 40mph. Quick and easy fix.
I have replaced the servo in the Notorious because the stock one failed.

That’s it, in what must be at least 40-50 runs two things have broken across 3 RCs, one of which was definitely my fault.

I have a colleague at work with a Traxxas Rustler VXL and a Rustler 4x4VXL and he hasn’t broken anything that wasn’t a quick, easy fix.

 

[Kavik Kang]

RTR are not fine for newcomers. In fact, they shouldn't even come with controllers. Anyone who knows enough to buy an RTR car already has a controller. THERE ARE NO INSTRUCTIONS ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD. RTR cars are ONLY for experts who already know how to build and fix the cars. Not only do they not come with instructions, no instructions exist at all. Only experts can buy RTR cars, they shouldn't even come with controllers.

 

[chevys10zr2003]

If newbies got kits all we would hear then is:
How do I bind and set up the receiver and transmitter?
What size motor should I get?
What kv motor should I get?
What esc will work with said motor?
What servo size do I need?
What servo specs do I need?
What wheels and tires work with this kit?
What body fits it?

Kits add another level of needing to know stuff that isn't spelled out that RTR doesn't have.

 

[bicketybam]

I can't believe the crap I'm reading in this thread. Can you imagine little Joey opening his Christmas present and seeing a kit. "Tools are in the basement, son. Have fun."

If there were only kits and no rtr's, this hobby would have been dead before the OP invented the internet.

 

[stuartd]

RTR are not fine for newcomers. In fact, they shouldn't even come with controllers. Anyone who knows enough to buy an RTR car already has a controller. THERE ARE NO INSTRUCTIONS ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD. RTR cars are ONLY for experts who already know how to build and fix the cars. Not only do they not come with instructions, no instructions exist at all. Only experts can buy RTR cars, they shouldn't even come with controllers.

You’re totally wrong. They are fine.

While I agree that there should be instructions I have read quite a few ‘you’ issues thus far.

You didn’t research whether detailed manuals were included before purchase.
You didn’t bother checking if there were detailed manuals after receipt of the RC and not finding one in the box.
You don’t want to use forums and videos that are available online to help you fix it.
You expect HH to swap out the RC with a different brand.

Honestly just put up a for sale ad and get rid. Your 180 IQ should surely let you accomplish that.

All of that is pretty moot though, as I get the distinct impression that you’re currently posting from under a bridge as you wait for the three billy goats gruff to try and cross it.

 

[SrC]

Beg to differ

RTR are not fine for newcomers. In fact, they shouldn't even come with controllers. Anyone who knows enough to buy an RTR car already has a controller. THERE ARE NO INSTRUCTIONS ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD. RTR cars are ONLY for experts who already know how to build and fix the cars. Not only do they not come with instructions, no instructions exist at all. Only experts can buy RTR cars, they shouldn't even come with controllers.

RTR's came about because the Industry decline in the early 2000's. RTR's put immediate satisfaction in the hands of a newcomer to the hobby. It was an avenue for mfr's to get these into many hands. Think volume and profit. The RC surface hobby was bred and groomed in the early 1990's. It was Race inspired and oriented. ONLY kits were available. The average hobbyist only wanted a kit. They wanted to build it with their hands. If you purchased your kit and opened the box and found it difficult, your friendly neighborhood Hobby shop/ Track would build it for you at a modest price. I did a lot of building AE RC10's and 10T's for guys at the track. I would build one kit a week. And tried to find the time to tune my own stuff. LOL. And all was good to bash or race whatever your intent. Nowadays an RC mfr. needs to offer a RTR or they cannot survive and prosper. A business model that permeates this hobby today. And MFR support is what makes a brand a winner.
When I got my 3 Arrma 6s rigs, first thing I did was run it on my stand to make sure electrics functioned. Then I did a major tear down, inspect everything, cleaned all the bearings of OE grease and so on. Inspect every single part. Check shock oil etc. I find a lot of inconsistencies, that you wont find until you break and disassemble. Shimmed where necessary. I measured wheel alignment, started from scratch. Sure I found mistakes with the factory build as these are mass produced by so many people at a sub-component level. I make it my build, because I am used to that. I refer to this forum and others for tweaks and out of box minor issues and address them when new. A week later I am bashing the hell out the rig. I am a builder and need that hands on touch to any new RTR rig I get. If my diffs are leaking or shocks leaking all over the box brand new, I place a call to Horizon and they send me parts and all. That is great support.
I notice that these days RTR's are for the beginner segment and tend to be marketed as such. Then experience will cause you to want an RC in Kit form. Things are reversed in todays RC world. If you don't tinker with your rig you will never learn how to fix it. Frustration ensues. This is a relaxing hobby and a great diversion as well. But it has to work for you. This is not for everyone. I have friends that see my enjoyment over the years and want a rig, soon to find out it is not for them. It happens. some of my friends play Golf. I tried it. not for me. They can spend the same amount of money on that sport that I spend on my "Toy Trucks". Yes in the end these are just toys. Some say big boy toys...

 

[Atom #28]

Crawlers are more forgiving and yes you can dump some serious money into them. Like I did. But they just don't break like the other types of rigs, unless you are crawling up the side of a 100+ foot 62 degree incline cliff and lose your line fast. Major carnage. LOL. Happened just once. Never again.

Haha! I rolled my Everest Gen7 over at the top of a 40 foot rock cliff....the crash lasted for what seemed like 5 minutes lololol

 

[SrC]

Yes, I said the same thing, the carnage seems to last forever on the way down doesn't it? You sit there watching hoping it catches that last rock ledge, but it doesn't and keeps breaking all the way down. Then you have the painful 10 minute climb down to pick up the carnage of parts etc.
8 pounds of Crawler sheds its parts real fast on the way down.

 

[nino]

Climbing down and back up a slope full of wet leaves on all fours (and my butt occasionally) to get the sumbitch and carry it back to the trail... good times!