Felony SOLVED? Maybe! My Rear End is as Loose as after a nite at Taco Bell! Why?

[L3phturn]

I don’t have one of these but the videos don’t seem odd. When you turn sharp and let off the throttle you can snap oversteer like that in anything because you transfer weight to the front, unload the rears, and the turn hard enough to break the back end loose. Don’t do that. I want to see a turn where you gradually roll into the throttle. If the rear snaps, counter steer but do not back off the throttle.

Also - the suggestion above to clean the tires with simple green is a good one. Do that. Wipe the rears down really well with Simple Green. Then get some speed on. Use some throttle. Get that back end out and see if it will hold a drift. If it starts to snap then hold the throttle steady and let it spin out.

Lastly, check your ESC settings and tell me what your drag brake is set to.

 

[Tw3ak3d]

If the upper link isn't parallel with the lower arm (higher on the hub side) camber will increase exponentially towards negative when the suspension is compressed. The opposite is true of the upper link is higher on the shock tower side, something to consider.

 

[SrC]

I don’t have one of these but the videos don’t seem odd. When you turn sharp and let off the throttle you can snap oversteer like that in anything because you transfer weight to the front, unload the rears, and the turn hard enough to break the back end loose. Don’t do that. I want to see a turn where you gradually roll into the throttle. If the rear snaps, counter steer but do not back off the throttle.

Also - the suggestion above to clean the tires with simple green is a good one. Do that. Wipe the rears down really well with Simple Green. Then get some speed on. Use some throttle. Get that back end out and see if it will hold a drift. If it starts to snap then hold the throttle steady and let it spin out.

Lastly, check your ESC settings and tell me what your drag brake is set to.

^^^ This.

 

[parcou]

I don’t have one of these but the videos don’t seem odd. When you turn sharp and let off the throttle you can snap oversteer like that in anything because you transfer weight to the front, unload the rears, and the turn hard enough to break the back end loose. Don’t do that. I want to see a turn where you gradually roll into the throttle. If the rear snaps, counter steer but do not back off the throttle.

Also - the suggestion above to clean the tires with simple green is a good one. Do that. Wipe the rears down really well with Simple Green. Then get some speed on. Use some throttle. Get that back end out and see if it will hold a drift. If it starts to snap then hold the throttle steady and let it spin out.

Lastly, check your ESC settings and tell me what your drag brake is set to.

You and SrC have posted this on cleaning the tires....something I have not tried although I wash and clean the rig after each run the tires are just water hose washed. Thx for the tip....not sure what the OP has his brakes set at but I want full stop. So the ESC is on 100% but I dial the tx back between 60-70%. The only time I turn the tx higher is when I am in large parking lots where I have to share with real cars then I want a quick stop since people like to stop and watch. I rarely do that if turn the tx dial too high braking stops but gets squirrely and does not seem to be good on the RC...could be OK but its a loud sound when set high...why I rarely do it.

If the weather gets better looking forward to some testing.

 

[SrC]

^^^Just be aware that 100% brake generally heats up the ESC a bit more. Just don't sustain the brake trigger too hard and long, feather them more.

 

[parcou]

^^^Just be aware that 100% brake generally heats up the ESC a bit more. Just don't sustain the brake trigger too hard and long, feather them more.

I did not know this wise advice....the first time I set it and hit the brakes...I learned that quickly. Beforehand with the Infraction v1 I only did light taps on the brakes without the option for 100%....thx to you and others for wise advice and I tend to power side to brake or if coming in straight fast I don't hard brake tap on/off as it gets closer. Carries over to the Felony....

Call me OCD in my mind if my ESC is going to go it will not be from braking rather forward motion bashing the heck out of it

Keep dropping the wisdom

 

[L3phturn]

You and SrC have posted this on cleaning the tires....something I have not tried although I wash and clean the rig after each run the tires are just water hose washed. Thx for the tip....not sure what the OP has his brakes set at but I want full stop. So the ESC is on 100% but I dial the tx back between 60-70%. The only time I turn the tx higher is when I am in large parking lots where I have to share with real cars then I want a quick stop since people like to stop and watch. I rarely do that if turn the tx dial too high braking stops but gets squirrely and does not seem to be good on the RC...could be OK but its a loud sound when set high...why I rarely do it.

If the weather gets better looking forward to some testing.

Not your brake setting, do you have any drag brake enabled? (If your ESC has a drag brake setting.) If you have drag brake enabled at say 10% it means that when you go throttle neutral it will apply brake at 10% power. It might cause what you are seeing.

The reason we say Simple Green is that it reacts with the rubber and softens the top layer. Old racers trick. Scrub the tires with simple green with a soft toothbrush, rinse them off and then give them a light mist. It will give them more grip for a few minutes on top of cleaning any debris or surface glazing

After that - pull the trigger. Get that thing moving and give it some stick. Let’s see you hang that tail out with throttle and warm up those tires. Let me see you do turns without backing off. This isn’t a road racer or and F1 car, put the boots to it man and hang that ads out the right way!

 

[SrC]

Never use drag brakes. Set to None/Zero%. ?

 

[L3phturn]

Never use drag brakes. Set to None/Zero%. ?

Agreed, I don’t know if he has any drag brake set but it’s worth checking because it could do exactly what those videos show.

 

[Liquid SSSnake]

There isnt a parameter for drag brakes on the Arrma exclusive Firma 150, so it cant be that.

 

[J Mitchel]

No drag brakes set. Factory radio. BUT, as several folks have pointed out, something is/was causing drag.
I loosened the way the pinion mesh was and that seemed to help, but still not there yet. As for my driving style shown in the video, remember, that video was shot on a phone while holding the transmitter in one hand and steering with the other. I was just trying not to drop the phone!
I usually do go faster than that and have a longer turn arc....with the same results.
Since changing the tires, the rear is super loose at all speeds.

Thanks,
Jeff

 

[SrC]

Try disabling AVC altogether. And test it again. Also too little Endpoint contributes to less oversteer. More push. And vice versa. Never forget the front end as a contributor.

 

[J Mitchel]

Same results with AVC to zero. I may not have mentioned in it the original post, but I did try that too. I tried a variety of AVC rates.
I had not adjusted steering endpoints, so those should be the same as factory.

Good suggestions. Please keep it up.

 

[jkflow]

AVC set to zero is not AVC off, actually needs to be disabled by re-binding. I doubt that would fix it but maybe a different setting is needed for the new tires. I would try slightly higher values as the new ones seem to slip more, maybe 5-10% higher.

 

[J Mitchel]

1/9/2021 Update
45 degrees, mix of damp pavement and dry pavement.
Changed to 500k center diff fluid from stock. No change to front or rear diff fluids.

No meaningful change from the last time I ran the car.
I got the original tires back from the friend I gave them to (to make a beer coozy for his garage) and tried them. Remember, with those tires, the car ran great.
NO CHANGE!
So it is not the tires.

Something has to be a variable. The car oversteers like crazy.
I tried with AVC on the transmitter turned as low as it would go. Car was a bit of a handful but not any better. Turned AVC about a 1/4 turn, car was better than no AVC, but the rear was still really lose and would spin out way, way easier than back in late November when the car ran well.

Running at zero camber on the rear. There is a noticeable amount of slop in the rear wheels...and it is possible that zero camber actually is positive a degree or two when in a turn.

I am so close to calling it quits and offering the car for local in person sale because I am frustrated. Not offering it yet, just venting.

Thanks for listening.
Jeff in Portland, OR

 

[parcou]

1/9/2021 Update
45 degrees, mix of damp pavement and dry pavement.
Changed to 500k center diff fluid from stock. No change to front or rear diff fluids.

No meaningful change from the last time I ran the car.
I got the original tires back from the friend I gave them to (to make a beer coozy for his garage) and tried them. Remember, with those tires, the car ran great.
NO CHANGE!
So it is not the tires.

Something has to be a variable. The car oversteers like crazy.
I tried with AVC on the transmitter turned as low as it would go. Car was a bit of a handful but not any better. Turned AVC about a 1/4 turn, car was better than no AVC, but the rear was still really lose and would spin out way, way easier than back in late November when the car ran well.

Running at zero camber on the rear. There is a noticeable amount of slop in the rear wheels...and it is possible that zero camber actually is positive a degree or two when in a turn.

I am so close to calling it quits and offering the car for local in person sale because I am frustrated. Not offering it yet, just venting.

Thanks for listening.
Jeff in Portland, OR

I feel your pain Brother!

I said many times on different threads that I will make it a speed run car although that has NEVER been my taste even with the Infraction v1...bashing these two is what I like.

I think you covered all I did. I played with many diff fluid change but left it at 30/100/10 currently...no change in rear action of sliding out. I did get all the slop out of mine where the rear tires only have a tick of movement, rear hub areas have no slope...as well as the front. Identical to my Infraction. No improvement. Only thing I have not tried is adding the tire weights upfront but one poster on another thread did report no change. But I want to try for myself.

It's a nice looking rig that has lots of potential....I've always hoped more would get it to add more input to the current issue. Maybe I need to be patient and give it another season for more owners. I'd hate for it to be a self queen but at the worse, I would hold it for that...maybe a solution could come in time. The Infraction performance is what I would hope it would be.

/pu

 

[Tw3ak3d]

Here's my recipe for a better handling Felony. To balance the low speed oversteer and high speed under steer I focused on front grip since the front tires spin faster, pulling the Felony straight.
1. Added shims to the front upper arms behind the pillows to take out some negative camber (helped with tire wear).
2. Replaced front springs with firmer 32lbf/in infraction springs.
3. Replaced front 160 weight shock oil with 100 weight. (Allows tires to stay planted instead of bouncing over bumps)
4. Adjusted droop screws for a slight front rake
5. Set rear camber to zero, and placed the rear upper link in the lower inboard hole on the shock tower. This creates a progressive negative camber on hard corners.

I can't compare to the infractions "riding on rails" handling, since I've never driven one. But, with the above setup I'm able to easily control my Felony, even on silver Hoons at 30 degrees.

 

[parcou]

Here's my recipe for a better handling Felony. To balance the low speed oversteer and high speed under steer I focused on front grip since the front tires spin faster, pulling the Felony straight.
1. Added shims to the front upper arms behind the pillows to take out some negative camber (helped with tire wear).
2. Replaced front springs with firmer 32lbf/in infraction springs.
3. Replaced front 160 weight shock oil with 100 weight. (Allows tires to stay planted instead of bouncing over bumps)
4. Adjusted droop screws for a slight front rake
5. Set rear camber to zero, and placed the rear upper link in the lower inboard hole on the shock tower. This creates a progressive negative camber on hard corners.

I can't compare to the infractions "riding on rails" handling, since I've never driven one. But, with the above setup I'm able to easily control my Felony, even on silver Hoons at 30 degrees.

Thx for the reply....always looking for new advice...

#2 I think @SrC has posted about shock springs on his Lim but I am willing to purchase and try this on the front as well as purchase the 100 shock weight

#5 Need a little help with the visual for 5....where are you referring to. Is it the turnbuckle at goes to the wheel hub are you referring to the shock position on the shock mount...I added two pics of my current...sorry still struggle on the naming sometimes

 

[Tw3ak3d]

The turnbuckle, yours is in the proper position.

 

[SrC]

Here's my recipe for a better handling Felony. To balance the low speed oversteer and high speed under steer I focused on front grip since the front tires spin faster, pulling the Felony straight.
1. Added shims to the front upper arms behind the pillows to take out some negative camber (helped with tire wear).
2. Replaced front springs with firmer 32lbf/in infraction springs.
3. Replaced front 160 weight shock oil with 100 weight. (Allows tires to stay planted instead of bouncing over bumps)
4. Adjusted droop screws for a slight front rake
5. Set rear camber to zero, and placed the rear upper link in the lower inboard hole on the shock tower. This creates a progressive negative camber on hard corners.

I can't compare to the infractions "riding on rails" handling, since I've never driven one. But, with the above setup I'm able to easily control my Felony, even on silver Hoons at 30 degrees.

^^^This. For the Fel.
Looks like a good setup.