Limitless The BlackCat builds his first 'true' speed run car

[Diem Turner]

Well, I did say it could be an incredibly bad idea...one 'worthy' of throwing away as quickly as it came to me.

As I haven't opened the diffs on my V2, and I have never looked at the R&P gears on the V1, I'm going to take a wild guess that, possibly, one is straight cut, and the other is spiral cut? If so, the "don't do it" would make 100% sense.

You did, was just confirming your suspicion

I think the only vehicles with spiral gears are the bigger off-road rigs. No, they're both straight cut but the ring & pinion gears for the diffs aren't really compatible with each other. That's why they've got those GP5 and GP6 designations. Here, take a look at how the teeth are cut on the GP5 and GP6 pinions and you'll see what I mean.

 

[Panther6834]

Understood...but, how are the ring gears cut? Guess that's the real question.

 

[Diem Turner]

Understood...but, how are the ring gears cut? Guess that's the real question.

The same as the pinion they belong to. GP5 ring gear is cut like the GP5 pinion and the GP6 ring gear is cut like the GP6 pinion.

 

[Panther6834]

Found images. Sorry about the low-res GP6 image. Anyway, yeah, I can see the difference. "Interesting" that the GP5 set is considered 'better', as I would think the mesh would be more problematic. As the teeth are shorter on ring & pinion, mesh needs to be as 'perfect' as possible, which would/could mean more 'precise' shimming. I'm somewhat surprised they didn't go with a spiral cut pattern, as spiral cut gears tend to be a little more 'forgiving' where mesh is concerned, shimming doesn't have to be as 'precise', and the turning of the gears is 'stronger'. With real-world race vehicles, you'll find they almost always use spiral cut gears (which race teams can easily afford, as spiral gears cost more).

So, what will my next "great"...or, "not so great"...idea be...hmmmmm

 

[Diem Turner]

Found images. Sorry about the low-res GP6 image. Anyway, yeah, I can see the difference. "Interesting" that the GP5 set is considered 'better', as I would think the mesh would be more problematic. As the teeth are shorter on ring & pinion, mesh needs to be as 'perfect' as possible, which would/could mean more 'precise' shimming. I'm somewhat surprised they didn't go with a spiral cut pattern, as spiral cut gears tend to be a little more 'forgiving' where mesh is concerned, shimming doesn't have to be as 'precise', and the turning of the gears is 'stronger'. With real-world race vehicles, you'll find they almost always use spiral cut gears (which race teams can easily afford, as spiral gears cost more).

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I was going to say that it's probably a cost cutting measure. Mesh is fine on the GP5 gears. There's plenty of tooth. The heavier off-road rigs have spiral cut ring & pinion gears to deal with the load. The straight cut gears work just fine for the 1/7 scale street rigs. You're far more likely to shear cross pins under the sun gears inside the diff or break the sun gear itself before you break ring or pinion gears. I usually only see those get damaged when the bearings that support the input pinion disintegrate and the pinion starts wobbling around which then trashes the ring gear.

 

[Panther6834]

I was going to say that it's probably a cost cutting measure. Mesh is fine on the GP5 gears. There's plenty of tooth. The heavier off-road rigs have spiral cut ring & pinion gears to deal with the load. The straight cut gears work just fine for the 1/7 scale street rigs. You're far more likely to shear cross pins under the sun gears inside the diff or break the sun gear itself before you break ring or pinion gears. I usually only see those get damaged when the bearings that support the input pinion disintegrate and the pinion starts wobbling around which then trashes the ring gear.

Sorry for the delay in replying, but work was quite busy between then and last Wednesday...and, since then, I've been out of town dealing with a family medical emergency. Anyway, thanks for the info. Regarding "shearing the cross pin", I know what you mean (having done that in another vehicle). As for breaking the gears, I've experienced that, as well (also in other vehicles, typically those using 'sintered' gears)...but, if I remember correctly, there's at least one aftermarket manufacturer who produces the gears in hardened steel, and is something I'll consider for the future.

On a seperate note (ie. 'updates'), the BasherQueen CF parts arrived, as did the HR aluminum diffuser supports (which were quickly installed). While I have yet to install the steering plates (arms), steering Ackerman rack, or top plate (none of which will be done until certain aluminum parts have been ordered/received), the rest have been installed. I also received (but, have yet to install) the PP CF center driveshafts. I'm thinking, the next upgrade parts to be ordered/installed will be the soon-to-be-released bulkheads from BQ. Initially, I had planned on ordering the HR versions...but, knowing the quality of Kimberly's work, I feel 'safer' using her stuff. This is NOT to say that HR parts aren't good (they almost-always are)...but, I feel the BQ stuff is just 'better' (the same can be said for anything comping from Vitavon Racing, as Arthur also does excellent work). In all probability (unless anyone has first-hand experience, and can say "bad idea"), I will (eventually) replace the stock plastic diff housings with machined...but, for now, the plastic ones will remain.

After the bulkheads, the next machined parts to be ordered will probably be the motor/spool mount assembly...except that I'm a little 'confused' in this area. The two options I'm currently considering (mostly becausae I'm not aware of any other high-quality options) are the "Grublock" from PPS, and the "Spector" from EMP, with me leaning more towards the EMP option...except thsat, even in EMP's offerings, I'm confused, as there's four different 'verrsions', with each being a different price. Physically, all four look identical, with the only differences (again, as best I can tell) being the actual motor mount plate - two include a plate that handles only M4 (ie. no M3 screws) screws w/ 25mm & 30mm spacings, while the other two include a plate handles M4 screws w/ 30mm spacings. I contacted EMP (via the website) at least a few weeks ago, trying to find out what (if any) the differences are between these four motor mounts, yet I never received a reply (in regards to determining the 'quality' of their customer service, that's not what I'd consider a "good start"). If anyone knows what the actual differences are between the four motormounts EMP offers for the Limitless (as well as the Felony, Outcast, Mojave, etc), and can state those differences here, I'd greatly appreciate it. Likewise, if anyone knows which - PPS or EMP - is truly better, I'd appreciate that, as well. In the meantime, I will try contacting EMP a second time, in hopes that they will respond back.

 

[Diem Turner]

Sorry for the delay in replying, but work was quite busy between then and last Wednesday...and, since then, I've been out of town dealing with a family medical emergency. Anyway, thanks for the info. Regarding "shearing the cross pin", I know what you mean (having done that in another vehicle). As for breaking the gears, I've experienced that, as well (also in other vehicles, typically those using 'sintered' gears)...but, if I remember correctly, there's at least one aftermarket manufacturer who produces the gears in hardened steel, and is something I'll consider for the future.

On a seperate note (ie. 'updates'), the BasherQueen CF parts arrived, as did the HR aluminum diffuser supports (which were quickly installed). While I have yet to install the steering plates (arms), steering Ackerman rack, or top plate (none of which will be done until certain aluminum parts have been ordered/received), the rest have been installed. I also received (but, have yet to install) the PP CF center driveshafts. I'm thinking, the next upgrade parts to be ordered/installed will be the soon-to-be-released bulkheads from BQ. Initially, I had planned on ordering the HR versions...but, knowing the quality of Kimberly's work, I feel 'safer' using her stuff. This is NOT to say that HR parts aren't good (they almost-always are)...but, I feel the BQ stuff is just 'better' (the same can be said for anything comping from Vitavon Racing, as Arthur also does excellent work). In all probability (unless anyone has first-hand experience, and can say "bad idea"), I will (eventually) replace the stock plastic diff housings with machined...but, for now, the plastic ones will remain.

After the bulkheads, the next machined parts to be ordered will probably be the motor/spool mount assembly...except that I'm a little 'confused' in this area. The two options I'm currently considering (mostly becausae I'm not aware of any other high-quality options) are the "Grublock" from PPS, and the "Spector" from EMP, with me leaning more towards the EMP option...except thsat, even in EMP's offerings, I'm confused, as there's four different 'verrsions', with each being a different price. Physically, all four look identical, with the only differences (again, as best I can tell) being the actual motor mount plate - two include a plate that handles only M4 (ie. no M3 screws) screws w/ 25mm & 30mm spacings, while the other two include a plate handles M4 screws w/ 30mm spacings. I contacted EMP (via the website) at least a few weeks ago, trying to find out what (if any) the differences are between these four motor mounts, yet I never received a reply (in regards to determining the 'quality' of their customer service, that's not what I'd consider a "good start"). If anyone knows what the actual differences are between the four motormounts EMP offers for the Limitless (as well as the Felony, Outcast, Mojave, etc), and can state those differences here, I'd greatly appreciate it. Likewise, if anyone knows which - PPS or EMP - is truly better, I'd appreciate that, as well. In the meantime, I will try contacting EMP a second time, in hopes that they will respond back.

Nae worries, life is busy

Unfortunately I can't tell you much when it comes to EMP products as I simply have yet to try any and I don't know what the difference is between the four versions that they offer. What I can say (and many others on the forum will back this up) is that the PPS motor mount is top notch, both in terms of fit & finish and functionality. Setting mesh on it is a joy. Another one you might want to take into consideration is the Scorched RC Rotolock mount. I haven't tried one myself but have heard nothing but good things about it and some of the fastest people in the world use them.

https://scorchedparts.co.uk/collect...1-8th-and-1-7th-trucks-for-1-5th-scale-motors

 

[Panther6834]

Nae worries, life is busy

Another one you might want to take into consideration is the Scorched RC Rotolock mount. I haven't tried one myself but have heard nothing but good things about it and some of the fastest people in the world use them.

Before commenting on your comment, first, am update on the EMP matter. After contacting a second time, he responded, apologizing for having 'missed' my first email. In his email, he indicated that all four motor mounts are compatible with the Limitless V2, and that two of them have only M4 30mm spacing, while the other two have both M4 25mm & 30mm (no M3 25mm or 25.4mm options... ONLY M4)...but, no explanation for the reasoning behind the wildly-different prices ($65/65.07 & $105.95/105.97). I have emailed him back to get 'clarification' on the pricing structure...but, what I suspect is that the two cheaper ones don't include the upper portion of the spool mount (ie. use the original), and the two more expensive options include a 7075 version matching the rest of the EMP motor mount. As for the $0.07/0.02 pricing difference, I suspect that might be to make it easier for him to differentiate between each of the two cheaper options, and they two more expensive options, as there doesn't appear to be any assigned "part numbers". At this point, I feel confident enough that he will reply back with the requested 'clarification'...and, when he does, I will post an update related to that.

Regarding the Roto-Lok, did initially consider it (still am), and I can understand that "some of the fastest people use them"...but, as they only show photos of it mounted onto their own CF GT chassis, it makes it impossible to tell whether, or not, it is compatible with the stock V1/V2 chassis. On the Scorched Parts website, it does mention about needing "1.5mm additional space", but there's nothing indicating exactly what they mean by that. Although they do clearly states it's works with up to a 50T pinion with the stock spur/spool, there doesn't seem to be any way of knowing whether the "click-mesh" positions will work with 'oddball' pinion/spur combos.

Quick update (before I post): I have been texting with EMP for the past 45 minutes, and everything is 'clarified'. First, I was correct in my assumption of what was related to the cost differences...but, I was only partially correct. Evidently, the lower price versions only include the motor mount side of r motor/spool mount. The other side (ie. the lower plastic part), as well as the bearing-carrier/top-plate, are not included. The more expensive option includes everything. Another thing to consider is that, with the PPS & Roto-Lok mounts, if there is any problem later on (individual components bent, broken, etc), they (supposedly) don't sell individual replacement parts. The only way to (supposedly) obtain 'replacement' would be to order an entirely new motor mount. With EMP, replacements of individual parts can be purchased. That is something for everyone to think about when deciding which motor mount to go with.

 

[joshludden]

Regarding the Roto-Lok, did initially consider it (still am), and I can understand that "some of the fastest people use them"...but, as they only show photos of it mounted onto their own CF GT chassis, it makes it impossible to tell whether, or not, it is compatible with the stock V1/V2 chassis. On the Scorched Parts website, it does mention about needing "1.5mm additional space", but there's nothing indicating exactly what they mean by that. Although they do clearly states it's works with up to a 50T pinion with the stock spur/spool, there doesn't seem to be any way of knowing whether the "click-mesh" positions will work with 'oddball' pinion/spur combos.

Quick update (before I post): I have been texting with EMP for the past 45 minutes, and everything is 'clarified'. First, I was correct in my assumption of what was related to the cost differences...but, I was only partially correct. Evidently, the lower price versions only include the motor mount side of r motor/spool mount. The other side (ie. the lower plastic part), as well as the bearing-carrier/top-plate, are not included. The more expensive option includes everything. Another thing to consider is that, with the PPS & Roto-Lok mounts, if there is any problem later on (individual components bent, broken, etc), they (supposedly) don't sell individual replacement parts. The only way to (supposedly) obtain 'replacement' would be to order an entirely new motor mount. With EMP, replacements of individual parts can be purchased. That is something for everyone to think about when deciding which motor mount to go with.

You can absolutely buy replacement parts for the @PPS-RC. I have 2 of them already & hopefully my 3rd is waiting for me today. Only motor mount I'll ever buy

 

[Diem Turner]

The Rotolok should be compatible with both the V1 & V2 chassis. The spacing between motor mount and diff support remain the same. As Josh already pointed out, replacement parts for PPS are available and they're available for the Rotolok as well.

https://scorchedparts.co.uk/collections/arrma-infraction/products/motor-mount-spares

I don't think the Rotolok is a click design. I'm pretty sure it's "infinitely" adjustable from what I've seen. Yes, it has markings, but I don't think it's a ratchet type of design if that's what you mean.

Glad you got sorted out what the EMP structure is.

 

[Panther6834]

You can absolutely buy replacement parts for the PPS. I have 2 of them already & hopefully my 3rd is waiting for me today. Only motor mount I'll ever buy.

Good to know...thanks. One difference I notice between the PPS & EMP designs is that, while the EMP mount holds the sliding plate in place with 4 screws, the PPS plates are held with only 2 screws. Not saying 2 isn't 'enough' (especially when some other "slide" designs only use a single screw)...but, I do like the extra 'safety' of the 2 additional screws on the EMP.

The Rotolok should be compatible with both the V1 & V2 chassis. The spacing between motor mount and diff support remain the same. As Josh already pointed out, replacement parts for PPS are available and they're available for the Rotolok as well.

I don't think the Rotolok is a click design. I'm pretty sure it's "infinitely" adjustable from what I've seen. Yes, it has markings, but I don't think it's a ratchet type of design if that's what you mean.

Glad you got sorted out what the EMP structure is.

I think you're right about the "click-mesh"...it's not really a 'click', just uses 'tick' marks. And, I do see replacement parts are available (for PPS & Roto-Lok), despite what EMP says.

Now comes the "million dollar question" (and, yes, before I even ask it, I'll admit that I'm aware any replies to the question will probably be "personal opinion", and not "scientifically-backed data"):

Between Scorched Parts' Roto-Lok rotating design using 3 screws, and EMP's Specter sliding design using 4 screws, which is the stronger design?

 

[joshludden]

Good to know...thanks. One difference I notice between the PPS & EMP designs is that, while the EMP mount holds the sliding plate in place with 4 screws, the PPS plates are held with only 2 screws. Not saying 2 isn't 'enough' (especially when some other "slide" designs only use a single screw)...but, I do like the extra 'safety' of the 2 additional screws on the EMP.

I'm not familiar w/ the emp mount or it's design & I'm certainly not trying to talk you into or out of anything,but the pps mount also has a huge grub screw on the side that also locks the slider into place. & like @Diem Turner said above, setting gear mesh CANNOT be easier.

 

[Diem Turner]

Good to know...thanks. One difference I notice between the PPS & EMP designs is that, while the EMP mount holds the sliding plate in place with 4 screws, the PPS plates are held with only 2 screws. Not saying 2 isn't 'enough' (especially when some other "slide" designs only use a single screw)...but, I do like the extra 'safety' of the 2 additional screws on the EMP.

I think you're right about the "click-mesh"...it's not really a 'click', just uses 'tick' marks. And, I do see replacement parts are available (for PPS & Roto-Lok), despite what EMP says.

Now comes the "million dollar question" (and, yes, before I even ask it, I'll admit that I'm aware any replies to the question will probably be "personal opinion", and not "scientifically-backed data"):

Between Scorched Parts' Roto-Lok rotating design using 3 screws, and EMP's Specter sliding design using 4 screws, which is the stronger design?

Well, I think it would be fair to say that 4 bolts should be stronger than 3 bolts by about 33%. Sorry if I'm pointing out the obvious but this, of course, only applies to the strength of the motor plate to motor connection. I don't know how strong the two motor mounts are comparative to one another. I do think it's safe to say that regardless what motor mount you go with, at sufficiently high velocities the weight of the motor changing direction in an impact is almost guaranteed to deform just about any motor mount so the difference in strength is probably just an academic difference that will have no real world impact on how durable the motor mount is. This is just a presumption on my part, but it is based on what I've seen happen to motor mounts after high speed impacts which tells me that it's probably not possible to make something strong enough to withstand those kinds of inertial forces. If the question is not one of durability but rather just about how well the motor is held in place, I can say that I've never felt as though I even need a third screw in my PPS motor plate. Two is more than sufficient for a proper mechanical affixation to the motor. I think I would just find four screws overwrought and maybe a little annoying. But that's just me. Hope this helps

 

[Panther6834]

If the question is not one of durability but rather just about how well the motor is held in place, I can say that I've never felt as though I even need a third screw in my PPS motor plate. Two is more than sufficient for a proper mechanical affixation to the motor. Hope this helps

The 3rd screw on the Roto-Lok motor mount, and the 3rd & 4th screws on the EMP motor mount, aren't related to attaching the motor to the plate. As with almost all other motor mounting, motors are attached to both plates by only 2 screws. Well, except the Roto-Lok, which, evidently, does attach the motor to the motor plate via three M4 screws (can't remember if it's certain Tamiya it's Traxxas vehicles that attach motors the same way). The 3rd & 4th screws of the EMP is what I was referring to.

Specifically, I was referring to "holding strength" of the 4 (EMP) screws holding the motor plates to the motor mounts, compared to the 2 screws of the PPS (both have same essential design), compared to the 2 screws holding the curved piece of the Roto-Lok against the main motor mount piece. If all screws were in a straight line, then, yes, 4 screws (EMP) would have a stronger hold...but, the Roto-Lok mount is different. Although it uses 2 screws to hold the motor plate in place, those screws are not used to 'hold' the motor plate to the motor mount...instead, they are used to clamp a "third member" sort of piece to the main motor mount piece, which, in turn, also clamps motor plate between these two parts. In a way, it's similar to how the motor is held in place on the TLR 8ight-XE. Put another way, the 2 (PPS) & 4 (EMP) screws act more like giant "grub screws" to hold the motor plates against the motor mounts, essentially the same way a pinion gear is held in place on a motor's shaft, whereas the Roto-Lok uses a clamp method similar to how something is held between a vice grip. That's what the "which is stronger" question is related to. Hopefully, it makes more sense with me having worded it this way.

 

[Panther6834]

Just a super-quick add-on to everything I've posted throughout the day. After getting home (talk about a looooong day at work), I tried searching YouTube for any Limitless builds using the Scorched Parts Roto-Lok motor mount...and, other than the Scorched-Castle quad-motor build videos Raz did, I was unable to find ANY other videos with the Roto-Lok. However, design-wise, I'm definitely leaning towards it.

 

[Diem Turner]

Just a super-quick add-on to everything I've posted throughout the day. After getting home (talk about a looooong day at work), I tried searching YouTube for any Limitless builds using the Scorched Parts Roto-Lok motor mount...and, other than the Scorched-Castle quad-motor build videos Raz did, I was unable to find ANY other videos with the Roto-Lok. However, design-wise, I'm definitely leaning towards it.

I haven't looked for it specifically, but off the top of my head, KT's Limitless powered by the Hobbywing 70125 used the Roto-Lok. On balance, I think PPS is probably the most used aftermarket motor mount in the speed run world.

 

[Panther6834]

I haven't looked for it specifically, but off the top of my head, KT's Limitless powered by the Hobbywing 70125 used the Roto-Lok. On balance, I think PPS is probably the most used aftermarket motor mount in the speed run world.

Thanks for that info. Hopefully, my 'decision' didn't turn out to be a "too soon old, too late smart" one - by the time I read your reply, I had already ordered the Roto-Lok motor mount...along with a few other goodies from Scorched Parts (Island Hobby Nut is currently "out of stock" on the Roto-Lok, and, b since that's the 'primary' item I was ordering, had to order direct from Scorched Parts).

The "other goodies" consists of 8mm ID spacers, front & rear Ti skid plates, Ti lower suspension pins (not sure why they call them "suspension pins", when they're for mounting the bottom of the shocks...lol), Ti shock standoffs, Ti pillow balls, and the 7075 bell crank/servo-saver-delete.

The plan/goal is to get any/all chassis upgrades installed before the ESC/motor combo, since, at $500, that's the single (or two, depending on how long looks at it) most expensive item(s). I'm thinking that the only other items I'll need to order before the ESC/motor combo is the servo, and the wheels/tires. Speaking of tires...I know, be in another thread (created by @Jerold ), you suggested GPR, and @LibertyMKiii recommended the GRP XM3. However, since I'm about to move to Vegas (where it's anything from "somewhat warmer", to "friggin hot", I'm wondering if the XM4 and/or XM5 versions might be better/smarter...say, XM4 during the 'colder' 6 months, and XM5 during the other 6 months (except for June-August, when I wouldn't be running the Limitless at all...WAAAAAY too hot).

 

[Diem Turner]

I can't imagine you'll be disappointed with the Roto-Lok. I've loved every piece I've purchased from Scorched. Their design and finish is impeccable. The servo saver delete is a great piece of kit. Depending on how fast you intend to go, I think the Trident front shaft might be something worth considering. It's not terribly expensive and it addresses one of the major design flaws of the Arrma platform. I'm trying my own low/no budget method of ameliorating the steep angle of the front diff input cup by shimming up the rear of the front bulkhead which has resulted in bringing the front center shaft up to parallel with the chassis. I have yet to run the car like this but everything is smooth and I think it should work. FWIW, I haven't broken into the speeds where it's an issue yet, but I figured it was something worth trying to head off at the pass in hopes of protecting my investment in PP CF drive shafts.

Yeah, "suspension pin" seems a bit odd. Lower shock pin would surely have been more accurate. But whatever.

I'll be honest, I don't have a lot of experience with the different compounds on different temperature surfaces so all I could do is make assumptions and there's no indicator that my assumptions would be better than yours. Raz has always recommended using the S7 (now XM7) compound slicks. My assumption is that the line of reasoning might be that harder/stiffer compounds will balloon a little bit less. Whether or not this is true, I don't know for certain but I do think it stands to reason. Or maybe it's for durability reasons. Or maybe both.

I prefer running on foams as they:

• don't balloon which causes a massive reduction in the size of the contact patch as speed increases and
• it makes speed calculations more predictable as the amount of ballooning is difficult to measure for obvious reasons.

I've had success with getting my GRP calculations pretty close by adding 0.1-0.15" to the radius in my preferred speed calculator which has a field for the variable. I reverse engineered the values by punching in the values that I knew and then adjusting the tire ballooning value until I arrived at the actual speed I hit. How accurate this is, is probably debatable but it got me pretty close on subsequent calculations.

https://scriptasylum.com/rc_speed/top_speed.html

 

[Panther6834]

I'm trying my own low/no budget method of ameliorating the steep angle of the front diff input cup by shimming up the rear of the front bulkhead which has resulted in bringing the front center shaft up to parallel with the chassis. I have yet to run the car like this but everything is smooth and I think it should work. FWIW, I haven't broken into the speeds where it's an issue yet, but I figured it was something worth trying to head off at the pass in hopes of protecting my investment in PP CF drive shafts.

Hopefully, this doesn't cause other problems. By doing what you're doing, you could end up causing an alignment problem between the upper & lower suspension arms. In stock form, the upper & lower suspension arms are parallel to each other, in the exact same way as the upper & lower suspension arms on my X-MAXX.

While I don't (yet) have any operating experience with the Limitless, I definitely have experience with the X-MAXX...and, I'm 100% certain that, if I were to do on my X-MAXX, what you did in your Limitless, or would cause a series l serious 'binding' problem between the upper & lower suspension arms. At the same time, while the X-MAXX uses hinge pins on the inside & outside of, both, the upper & lower arms, the Limitless uses those (strange Arrma) pillow balls on the outside of the upper & lower arms...and, it's possible that, because of the pillow balls vs outer hinge pins, that just might eliminate the 'binding' problem the X-MAXX would experience.

It can't hurt to try...I'd just suggest doing so at slower speeds, at least to start. Heck, I'm no stranger to "wacky oddball" ideas. In "converting" one of my Traxxas Rustler 4x4s into a 'true' stadium truck (meaning, configuring it to run standard stadium truck 2.2" wheels, as opposed to the Rustler's 2.8" wheels), I average replaced the front C-hubs & steering spindles, and rear uprights, with the 4Tec 2.0 parts. Insane? Probably...but, it did work...well, at least until it hit a ramped-curb at at-least 70mph, did some incredible aerial acrobatics, and then landed (into a broken mess-of-a-pile). After that "experiment", I returned it to it's pre-4Tec parts configuration.

 

[Diem Turner]

I have maybe 2mm of suspension travel at the front. It hardly moves as it is. There's no binding. I don't know how long the suspension throw is on the X-MAXX, but I'm willing to wager it's orders of magnitude more than 2mm.

The one thing it does do, however, is flatten the caster angle a little bit of the front suspension. I counteracted this by moving the spacers of the top arms to the front to increase the caster angle again. I think it's pretty close to what it was in its stock configuration.

Almost anything is worth trying...within reason of course.