TP 4070 for Limitless build - questions about options

[Diem Turner]

That looks nice! is it black or green? funny enough I just built another stretched typhon with felony diffs and tires. I just put in the 4080 2022kv and painted a new black body. Took me so long to finish building it I'm only getting to test it at like 10:30 pm


This is either going to go really well or really bad.

Thanks bro She's black on black, with black backing, lol. That's funny, I guess our TP periods are in sync and we're not even living in the same house @Mr.Duke's Vader 3.0 gave me a hankering for a black Corvette and I felt like this would be the perfect body for a course racer. I removed the diffusor and recycled the wing from my Seven65 pulling the support pillars to the middle for more of a GTR-3 look. I still need to make some magnet mounts to pull the rear of the door panels in to the chassis so that it lines up better with the wheels. It's getting close. Can't wait to see what it looks like at night with the Killerbody light kit. It'll have functioning brake lights and blinkers in the side view mirrors.

When do we get to see the new black beauty? Oh and as for late testing...mine took place at 4am, lol.

 

[Moirae]

Thanks bro She's black on black, with black backing, lol. That's funny, I guess our TP periods are in sync and we're not even living in the same house @Mr.Duke's Vader 3.0 gave me a hankering for a black Corvette and I felt like this would be the perfect body for a course racer. I removed the diffusor and recycled the wing from my Seven65 pulling the support pillars to the middle for more of a GTR-3 look. I still need to make some magnet mounts to pull the rear of the door panels in to the chassis so that it lines up better with the wheels. It's getting close. Can't wait to see what it looks like at night with the Killerbody light kit. It'll have functioning brake lights and blinkers in the side view mirrors.

When do we get to see the new black beauty? Oh and as for late testing...mine took place at 4am, lol.

Man, you're going all in with that build! attention to detail is real. You gotta take a video when you have all the lights setup. I actually just did the last coat of paint lol. Funny enough I got the idea to do all black and the felony tires on the typhon from @Mr.Duke I think I need to remove the kraton steering knuckles and hubs that I added though. It drives nothing like a felony lol.

 

[Diem Turner]

Man, you're going all in with that build! attention to detail is real. You gotta take a video when you have all the lights setup. I actually just did the last paint of coat lol. Funny enough I got the idea to do all black and the felony tires on the typhon from @Mr.Duke I think I need to remove the kraton steering knuckles and hubs that I added though. It drives nothing like a felony lol.

Oh you can be certain I will And...I think you meant coat of paint...right?
FWIW, I think @Mr.Duke uses the force to control our paintjobs.

 

[Benlee1012]

Is it worth getting a 10-12s rated TP motor and only running it on 6s? Does it mean you'll only get 50-60% of the rated maximum power as per the TP published specs? They give a max Amps rating for each kV and max volts which then gives the maximum power (7600w for a 4070). Does the math work out like that? Or does the motor try to pull twice the amps (if the load is high enough) if you run it with half the rated voltage?
I would prefer a Y wound motor, as I've heard they're smoother running and easier on the ESC.

Anyone tried the new TP4070 SVM with 9500w max power? Y winds available which I like. Pretty crazy without going to the larger 4080 but the price is equally crazy (even more exxy than the 4080 and 55% more than the normal 4070).

 

[Diem Turner]

Is it worth getting a 10-12s rated TP motor and only running it on 6s? Does it mean you'll only get 50-60% of the rated maximum power as per the TP published specs? They give a max Amps rating for each kV and max volts which then gives the maximum power (7600w for a 4070). Does the math work out like that? Or does the motor try to pull twice the amps (if the load is high enough) if you run it with half the rated voltage?
I would prefer a Y wound motor, as I've heard they're smoother running and easier on the ESC.

Anyone tried the new TP4070 SVM with 9500w max power? Y winds available which I like. Pretty crazy without going to the larger 4080 but the price is equally crazy (even more exxy than the 4080 and 55% more than the normal 4070).

If you're referring to the problems that were experienced with XLX2s and some TP motors, this was due to the 6-pole configuration which the XLX2 has trouble reading the back EMF from and had nothing to do with Delta vs. Wye wind motors. The XLX2 works just fine with either (I run both Wye-wind Castle and Delta-wind TP motors with it). When running the large can 56xx or 58xx motors, make sure to stay under 1500KV due to the 6-pole configuration and you should be fine. With the 40xx and smaller 4 and 2 pole motors, no such consideration need be made.

As for the 12S motor on 6S...I probably wouldn't but it might make for an interesting experiment. You'd probably need to run some pretty silly gearing as the RPMs are going to be really low which, as you've already identified, will cause some rather high amp draw given the, comparatively, low voltage. I'm currently running a 1721 which was intended for 6-8S on 3S and it has been fantastic. I've pushed it to 122mph on 3S in my Infraction so far and I think I can squeeze a few more mph out of the setup. I am running in the 500-600A range though so it's something worth keeping in mind as any setup like this is going to require batteries that can supply an awful lot of amps.

 

[rotauq]

As for the 12S motor on 6S...I probably wouldn't but it might make for an interesting experiment. You'd probably need to run some pretty silly gearing as the RPMs are going to be really low which, as you've already identified, will cause some rather high amp draw given the, comparatively, low voltage. I'm currently running a 1721 which was intended for 6-8S on 3S and it has been fantastic. I've pushed it to 122mph on 3S in my Infraction so far and I think I can squeeze a few more mph out of the setup. I am running in the 500-600A range though so it's something worth keeping in mind as any setup like this is going to require batteries that can supply an awful lot of amps.

The more winds a motor has the thinner the windings get. In general +/-4 turns will not make much difference, but when you go into extreme it might not deal well with high amps instead of the expected high voltage.

 

[LibertyMKiii]

Is it worth getting a 10-12s rated TP motor and only running it on 6s? Does it mean you'll only get 50-60% of the rated maximum power as per the TP published specs? They give a max Amps rating for each kV and max volts which then gives the maximum power (7600w for a 4070). Does the math work out like that? Or does the motor try to pull twice the amps (if the load is high enough) if you run it with half the rated voltage?
I would prefer a Y wound motor, as I've heard they're smoother running and easier on the ESC.

Anyone tried the new TP4070 SVM with 9500w max power? Y winds available which I like. Pretty crazy without going to the larger 4080 but the price is equally crazy (even more exxy than the 4080 and 55% more than the normal 4070).

@rotauq mentioned the thinner windings in the post above. Here is a specific example where I bought 2 different TP4070 motor for you @Benlee1012

It is really best to buy the correct KV for the application and use case. The correct KV for a speed runner on 6s is very different from the KV on 6s for a basher to stay cool.

TP4070 (780kv wind)

TP4070 (1700kv wind)

Another perspective on the 780kv tiny wire into the cups of the XLX2

 

[Moirae]

Oh you can be certain I will And...I think you meant coat of paint...right?
FWIW, I think @Mr.Duke uses the force to control our paintjobs.

Wifey was trying to take teaser pics for IG. Didn't want to let me post pics until we go outside in the sun. Btw, would you happen to have some tips on stopping the rear end from sliding out so easily? Funny enough I stretched the wifey typhon too and somehow hers drives PERFECTLY. Seriously, she is in love with it and even I'm liking it a lot. I can't figure out why hers handles so much better than mine when it comes to drifting. Granted I know one of mine has felony diffs and tires so it will for sure be different, but it actually handles very similar to my other stretched typhon that is more similar to hers. Both of my typhons just swing the rear end out super easily and causes me to 360 all over the place. I started thinking maybe my motor was too strong or something as she is using a max6 combo but both mine have mmx8s and one is 4080 the other is 4070.

If you're referring to the problems that were experienced with XLX2s and some TP motors, this was due to the 6-pole configuration which the XLX2 has trouble reading the back EMF from and had nothing to do with Delta vs. Wye wind motors. The XLX2 works just fine with either (I run both Wye-wind Castle and Delta-wind TP motors with it). When running the large can 56xx or 58xx motors, make sure to stay under 1500KV due to the 6-pole configuration and you should be fine. With the 40xx and smaller 4 and 2 pole motors, no such consideration need be made.

As for the 12S motor on 6S...I probably wouldn't but it might make for an interesting experiment. You'd probably need to run some pretty silly gearing as the RPMs are going to be really low which, as you've already identified, will cause some rather high amp draw given the, comparatively, low voltage. I'm currently running a 1721 which was intended for 6-8S on 3S and it has been fantastic. I've pushed it to 122mph on 3S in my Infraction so far and I think I can squeeze a few more mph out of the setup. I am running in the 500-600A range though so it's something worth keeping in mind as any setup like this is going to require batteries that can supply an awful lot of amps.

Is the pole problem only with the XLX2 and not the mmx8s? I assume so because I have a 1920 kv tp 5650 which is 6 pole and I've had zero problems with it even on 8s. Seems weird the XLX2 would have it and not the mmx8s though. Castle is weird

 

[Diem Turner]

View attachment 229497
View attachment 229500

Wifey was trying to take teaser pics for IG. Didn't want to let me post pics until we go outside in the sun. Btw, would you happen to have some tips on stopping the rear end from sliding out so easily? Funny enough I stretched the wifey typhon too and somehow hers drives PERFECTLY. Seriously, she is in love with it and even I'm liking it a lot. I can't figure out why hers handles so much better than mine when it comes to drifting. Granted I know one of mine has felony diffs and tires so it will for sure be different, but it actually handles very similar to my other stretched typhon that is more similar to hers. Both of my typhons just swing the rear end out super easily and causes me to 360 all over the place. I started thinking maybe my motor was too strong or something as she is using a max6 combo but both mine have mmx8s and one is 4080 the other is 4070.

Is the pole problem only with the XLX2 and not the mmx8s? I assume so because I have a 1920 kv tp 5650 which is 6 pole and I've had zero problems with it even on 8s. Seems weird the XLX2 would have it and not the mmx8s though. Castle is weird

Hard to say, but I think the first thing I'd try is putting the same diffs and tires front/back and see how that handles. I've seen many threads complaining about the lack of grip using the 107mm Felony rears. The different diffs, different sized tires and different ballooning will produce different wheel speeds front and rear which is bound to upset the handling.

I'm only aware of the problem existing with the XLX2. I would surmise that it has something to do with the different amp ratings of the two ESCs but I have no evidence to support this. Castle is weird indeed

 

[Moirae]

Hard to say, but I think the first thing I'd try is putting the same diffs and tires front/back and see how that handles. I've seen many threads complaining about the lack of grip using the 107mm Felony rears. The different diffs, different sized tires and different ballooning will produce different wheel speeds front and rear which is bound to upset the handling.

I'm only aware of the problem existing with the XLX2. I would surmise that it has something to do with the different amp ratings of the two ESCs but I have no evidence to support this. Castle is weird indeed

Ahh I actually don't think it's the felony diffs or tires. I have 2 stretched typhons and one of them doesn't have the felony stuff and they still both perform in similar fashions and nothing like the wifey stretched typhon. Even when I put the same tires she uses on my 2nd stretched typhon it was still nothing like hers. I guess I will just try to toss stuff at the wall and see what sticks. Try to match her camber settings with mine or something.

 

[Diem Turner]

Ahh I actually don't think it's the felony diffs or tires. I have 2 stretched typhons and one of them doesn't have the felony stuff and they still both perform in similar fashions and nothing like the wifey stretched typhon. Even when I put the same tires on my 2nd stretched typhon as hers it was still nothing alike. I guess I will just try to toss stuff at the wall and see what sticks. Try to match her camber settings with mine or something.

Ok, that sounds reasonable and like a good plan of attack. Make that spaghetti stick!!

 

[LibertyMKiii]

Is the pole problem only with the XLX2 and not the mmx8s? I assume so because I have a 1920 kv tp 5650 which is 6 pole and I've had zero problems with it even on 8s. Seems weird the XLX2 would have it and not the mmx8s though. Castle is weird

Supposedly it effects both models of ESC, but only when you are pushing the system to the limits. Speeds over 120+ mph.

 

[Moirae]

Supposedly it effects both models of ESC, but only when you are pushing the system to the limits. Speeds over 120+ mph.

Thanks for that! makes sense as I haven't tried to go that fast yet.

 

[Benlee1012]

Oh wow! I had no idea the TP motors with low kV come with with such thin wires. Looks like 14-16awg on the 780kv! I'll definitely choose wisely.
Anyone have experience with the SVM versionof the 4070? It was only released last month.

 

[Moirae]

Oh wow! I had no idea the TP motors with low kV come with with such thin wires. Looks like 14-16awg on the 780kv! I'll definitely choose wisely.
Anyone have experience with the SVM versionof the 4070? It was only released last month.

I'm still trying to figure out what you're trying to do with this motor. I seriously doubt you need a TP SVM. Are you trying to bash or is this an on-road car? IF you're trying to bash you really should just get the 1700kv and call it a day.

 

[Benlee1012]

I'm still trying to figure out what you're trying to do with this motor. I seriously doubt you need a TP SVM. Are you trying to bash or is this an on-road car? IF you're trying to bash you really should just get the 1700kv and call it a day.

@Moirae , sorry I should've started with that!
Kraton 6s, 150mm tyres (proline badlands for the light weight, NOT the MX38 variant) so it still handles well and easier on diffs.
With this size tyre, I'd like to be able to do standing and rolling backflips with ease and around 70km/h with 4s and over 100km/h with 6s on short grass. My other rigs seem to go 20% slower on grass vs road.
Basically something fun to bash around in a large open field, not much jumps and occasionally on a dirt track.
I'd like it if it didn't have any heat issues on a 30 deg Celcius (86 fahrenheit) day running dual fans on the motor.
1st choice was the 2250, as it'll be mostly 4s but now I'm thinking maybe the 1520 is enough even on 4s?
I was looking at SVM only because I really like the idea of stupid power in a small rig but I guess that's like a 600Hp turbo Hayabusa where you can't even put the power down right? Lol!

 

[Moirae]

@Moirae , sorry I should've started with that!
Kraton 6s, 150mm tyres (proline badlands for the light weight, NOT the MX38 variant) so it still handles well and easier on diffs.
With this size tyre, I'd like to be able to do standing and rolling backflips with ease and around 70km/h with 4s and over 100km/h with 6s on short grass. My other rigs seem to go 20% slower on grass vs road.
Basically something fun to bash around in a large open field, not much jumps and occasionally on a dirt track.
I'd like it if it didn't have any heat issues on a 30 deg Celcius (86 fahrenheit) day running dual fans on the motor.
1st choice was the 2250, as it'll be mostly 4s but now I'm thinking maybe the 1520 is enough even on 4s?
I was looking at SVM only because I really like the idea of stupid power in a small rig but I guess that's like a 600Hp turbo Hayabusa where you can't even put the power down right? Lol!

I dunno if you missed it but I posted a video on 2nd page of me doing a double standing backflip with big ass methodrc Mt tires that are 170mm and I'd assume noticeably heavier than badlands. With the 1700kv 4070, you will also get 75 kmh on 4s and 111 kmh on 6s using 24t/50 gearing and 150mm tires.

In the video my kraton was geared 21/50 and on 8s. Motor still didn't get hot with 2x 40mm fans. On 6s there is no point even mentioning the temp . Up to you but you should really get the 1700kv in my opinion. You'll thank me.

 

[Benlee1012]

I dunno if you missed it but I posted a video on 2nd page of me doing a double standing backflip with big ass methodrc Mt tires that are 170mm and I'd assume noticeably heavier than badlands. With the 1700kv 4070, you will also get 75 kmh on 4s and 111 kmh on 6s using 24t/50 gearing and 150mm tires.

In the video my kraton was geared 21/50 and on 8s. Motor still didn't get hot with 2x 40mm fans. On 6s there is no point even mentioning the temp . Up to you but you should really get the 1700kv in my opinion. You'll thank me.

Actually, I think I saw that video. Sort of a silver/white body colour?? It's was awesome!
That's the thing though, the larger diameter heavier tires would have a greater gyroscopic effect, giving the truck more rotation right?
I'd like to be able to achieve that using the lightweight badlands because they will also handle much better!
I'll definitely give the 1700kV some thought. I just have it stuck in my head that Y wind is better than D for low end torque and temps but D is better for high speed power.

 

[Moirae]

Actually, I think I saw that video. Sort of a silver/white body colour?? It's was awesome!
That's the thing though, the larger diameter heavier tires would have a greater gyroscopic effect, giving the truck more rotation right?
I'd like to be able to achieve that using the lightweight badlands because they will also handle much better!
I'll definitely give the 1700kV some thought. I just have it stuck in my head that Y wind is better than D for low end torque and temps but D is better for high speed power.

I could have done the same flip with backflip lps tbh. To make it even worse, the methodrc tires are belted. You'd flip much easier with the badlands imo. I currently have my 1700kv in a Talion XXL

Fireteam tires in the pic but I put backflip 6s tires on there and did standing backflips. My talion XXL is bigger than a Kraton and heavier.

Also, a tiny TP 4050 is enough to get violent standing backflips. Kevin Talbot has a video of his kraton doing it and he had a tp 4050 2300kv iirc. I've also tried a 4050 2100kv in a kraton and it was violent. A 4070 is waaaaaaay more motor than that.

I actually have a lot of TP motors and iirc 18 Arrma rigs with more than half of them having TP motors. My talion OG has the 4070 2080kv and one of my stretched typhons has the 4070 2250kv. I also have a limitless with the 4070cm 2200kv. A typhon TLR with a tp 4060cm 2080kv and the wifey typhon had a 4060 1750kv that I just swapped to a max6 combo.

that's just to name a handful. That 1700 runs cooler than ALL of them and is dealing with a heavier load. When I changed the kraton into a stretched typhon and kept the 1700kv in there for a few days I loved it. I then bought the 2250kv to put in there as I thought it would be better for onroad car. I geared them to both be about 80 mph and the 1700 ran so much cooler than the 2250 I was almost mad. I actually regretted buying the 2250 and thought I should have just got a 2nd 1700kv.

I've never heard of y wind being better for low end torque. I have heard that D wind can pull more amps and typically runs hotter. The 1700 is for sure a D wind but I don't know why it runs cooler than just about everything else I've tried.

Tbh if you were in the states I'd sell you my 2250kv just so I can go get another 1700

Good luck bro! Oh and a short video of that same kraton on 6s same 21/50 gearing doing standing backflips with iirc backflip lp tires or stock kraton tires? I forgot tbh lol.

 

[Benlee1012]

I could have done the same flip with backflip lps tbh. To make it even worse, the methodrc tires are belted. You'd flip much easier with the badlands imo. I currently have my 1700kv in a Talion XXL

View attachment 229569

Fireteam tires in the pic but I put backflip 6s tires on there and did standing backflips. My talion XXL is bigger than a Kraton and heavier.

Also, a tiny TP 4050 is enough to get violent standing backflips. Kevin Talbot has a video of his kraton doing it and he had a tp 4050 2300kv iirc. I've also tried a 4050 2100kv in a kraton and it was violent. A 4070 is waaaaaaay more motor than that.

I actually have a lot of TP motors and iirc 18 Arrma rigs with more than half of them having TP motors. My talion OG has the 4070 2080kv and one of my stretched typhons has the 4070 2250kv. I also have a limitless with the 4070cm 2200kv. A typhon TLR with a tp 4060cm 2080kv and the wifey typhon had a 4060 1750kv that I just swapped to a max6 combo.

that's just to name a handful. That 1700 runs cooler than ALL of them and is dealing with a heavier load. When I changed the kraton into a stretched typhon and kept the 1700kv in there for a few days I loved it. I then bought the 2250kv to put in there as I thought it would be better for onroad car. I geared them to both be about 80 mph and the 1700 ran so much cooler than the 2250 I was almost mad. I actually regretted buying the 2250 and thought I should have just got a 2nd 1700kv.

I've never heard of y wind being better for low end torque. I have heard that D wind can pull more amps and typically runs hotter. The 1700 is for sure a D wind but I don't know why it runs cooler than just about everything else I've tried.

Tbh if you were in the states I'd sell you my 2250kv just so I can go get another 1700

Good luck bro! Oh and a short video of that same kraton on 6s same 21/50 gearing doing standing backflips with iirc backflip lp tires or stock kraton tires? I forgot tbh lol.

That Talion looks wicked! Love the blue body with red chassis components poking through and the Fireteam tires look really cool on it!
Looks like lots of fun with the backflipping Kraton!
I guess real world tested opinion is better than theory with the wind and kV of the motors! Most likely I'll get the 1700kV then!
I wish I was in the US. Most RC parts costs much more here, especially Castle branded things. $500AUD ($340USD) for an XLX2! The US dollar is going from strength to strength lately. Unfortunately all the Chinese sellers trade in USD as well. So lately, we've been hit with a double whammy. Inflation PLUS exchange rate changes