Car Dealerships' Junk Fees

[Jerold]

Most consumers think they are dealing with individual 'private' car dealerships..
But in reality these "dealerships" are now all part of Mega Conglomerates (controlled by a dozen or so).. and they basically act like monopolies.

So even if you think you are 'voting with your hard earn $$$'.. by shopping around or going to their competitors, you're just going to the Same company with a different signage..

What happens behind the scenes is quite insidious.
Because they not only Know where you've shopped at (dealerships in their 'network'), they can also see what you've looked at [vehicle(s)] and/or who you were negotiating with, if or what your trading in etc etc.

When I say vote with your dollars, if you don't like the car or dealer because of the pricing, buy something else. Used cars from private parties don't have hidden fees. Internet cars sales are more transparent and you never need to talk to a person.

Personally I'm more likely to buy car from a dealer with a good service department, because you will deal with the sales department once and see the service department for years. An extra $500 for the car with a great service department will be cheaper in the long run. Where I live Lexus has great sales people, but the service sucks pretty bad. My wife loves her car but we are very much considering other brands because the service is so bad.

What they are doing is just sales and how it works. You don't need a network of dealers to figure out what people want and are willing to pay. But the information is worth a lot of money because you can paint the picture of the customer, with their likes and dislikes as well as their price tolerance and still have incompetent sales people. When it's digital it's portable.

Good sales people don't need the network and the secret information about you. They listen to you, build the relationship and make you want to buy a car from them. They get you to pay more and send your best friend over to them.

Even with all their network tools they are nothing compared to Amazon, Google and Facebook. They can predict what color underwear you will wear on which day of the month. It's because it's not a guess it's influencing you. They are probably influencing your next car purchase than the brand or dealer.

Watch "/Social Dilemma" on Netflix. That's truly insidious.

 

[KnowAir]

When I say vote with your dollars, if you don't like the car or dealer because of the pricing, buy something else. Used cars from private parties don't have hidden fees. Internet cars sales are more transparent and you never need to talk to a person.

Personally I'm more likely to buy car from a dealer with a good service department, because you will deal with the sales department once and see the service department for years. An extra $500 for the car with a great service department will be cheaper in the long run. Where I live Lexus has great sales people, but the service sucks pretty bad. My wife loves her car but we are very much considering other brands because the service is so bad.

What they are doing is just sales and how it works. You don't need a network of dealers to figure out what people want and are willing to pay. But the information is worth a lot of money because you can paint the picture of the customer, with their likes and dislikes as well as their price tolerance and still have incompetent sales people. When it's digital it's portable.

Good sales people don't need the network and the secret information about you. They listen to you, build the relationship and make you want to buy a car from them. They get you to pay more and send your best friend over to them.

Even with all their network tools they are nothing compared to Amazon, Google and Facebook. They can predict what color underwear you will wear on which day of the month. It's because it's not a guess it's influencing you. They are probably influencing your next car purchase than the brand or dealer.

Watch "/Social Dilemma" on Netflix. That's truly insidious.

Good points..although I personally don't deal with service departments other than warranties. I can't bring myself to pay others to do what I can for a fraction of the cost. I remember bringing my wifes car in for a recall letter, we noticed your safety inspection (annual) runs out at the end of the month. Would you like us to do the inspection while you're here? Sure, why not..half hour later, uh your rear license plate bulb is out, $30 to replace it. No thanks, I'll replace the $3 bulb myself thanks. I still had to pay them the $21 inspection fee, and subsequently change the bulb and pay for an inspection elsewhere after the month rolled over. I just refuse to pay what these stealerships charge for anything, even though in this case it cost me double for inspection fees.. just for the principal of it.

 

[KnowAir]

BTW, good piece you shared about social media. As an older person who grew up without internet, it's easy to see just how people are being manipulated by it.. the internet has really changed everything. Surely there is good from it, but also alot of bad, especially for young developing minds that are so easily influenced.

 

[Greengaunja]

BTW, good piece you shared about social media. As an older person who grew up without internet, it's easy to see just how people are being manipulated by it.. the internet has really changed everything. Surely there is good from it, but also alot of bad, especially for young developing minds that are so easily influenced.

Malcolm X was a man well ahead of his time to recognize where true power came from. I guarantee he would have sh!t a brick if he were to envision today's "information" highway.

 

[Jerold]

Good points..although I personally don't deal with service departments other than warranties. I can't bring myself to pay others to do what I can for a fraction of the cost. I remember bringing my wifes car in for a recall letter, we noticed your safety inspection (annual) runs out at the end of the month. Would you like us to do the inspection while you're here? Sure, why not..half hour later, uh your rear license plate bulb is out, $30 to replace it. No thanks, I'll replace the $3 bulb myself thanks. I still had to pay them the $21 inspection fee, and subsequently change the bulb and pay for an inspection elsewhere after the month rolled over. I just refuse to pay what these stealerships charge for anything, even though in this case it cost me double for inspection fees.. just for the principal of it.

I used to do the work myself. It's wasn't that hard, I had the time, the tools and didn't have the money. But I also bought older cars with zero warranty. My older cars required minimal intervention and only required a set of wrenches.

Now a days it's getting harder to do it yourself. It's requires special tools to access the computers, in come cases just to reset the maintenance reminders. The reality is I can change the oil myself for $60 in parts, spend 2 hrs on the ground making a mess. Then I can't get rid of the oil without driving 30 miles to a county haz mat facility to find out they are on another freaken holiday. Get home clean up the spilled oil ins the car. Yes the auto parts stores are supposed to have an oil dump, but they are magically full all the time. The garbage man is supposed to take it but they just tag it with some BS excuse that it's picked up on the 7th Tues of the month, and leave it on the curb.

I tried rotating the tires on my Audi and that took 4 hrs because there is no way (that I can find) to get it on jack stands.

Probably need to turn in my Man Card.

 

[KnowAir]

I used to do the work myself. It's wasn't that hard, I had the time, the tools and didn't have the money. But I also bought older cars with zero warranty. My older cars required minimal intervention and only required a set of wrenches.

Now a days it's getting harder to do it yourself. It's requires special tools to access the computers, in come cases just to reset the maintenance reminders. The reality is I can change the oil myself for $60 in parts, spend 2 hrs on the ground making a mess. Then I can't get rid of the oil without driving 30 miles to a county haz mat facility to find out they are on another freaken holiday. Get home clean up the spilled oil ins the car. Yes the auto parts stores are supposed to have an oil dump, but they are magically full all the time. The garbage man is supposed to take it but they just tag it with some BS excuse that it's picked up on the 7th Tues of the month, and leave it on the curb.

I tried rotating the tires on my Audi and that took 4 hrs because there is no way (that I can find) to get it on jack stands.

Probably need to turn in my Man Card.

Nah, you don't have to work on ur own car to hold a man card bro. All good. I get it.
I do my own repairs out of necessity more so than any other reason TBH. Of course I don't really trust most people either so, that's another reason. I take my used oil to our local transfer station with my garbage. Yeah, pretty rural where I live, there are refuse companies that will pick up our garbage, but it's "free" to just take it to the transfer station. They have a waste oil burner they use to heat yhe town garage. Win-win I figure. Our newest car is my wifes, which is 10 years old with 140k on it. So nothing I own is under warranty, LOL.
I also definitely agree on the need for all the special tools, programmers/scanners..they don't want folks fixing their own cars, that's for sure!!

 

[Greengaunja]

I used to do the work myself. It's wasn't that hard, I had the time, the tools and didn't have the money. But I also bought older cars with zero warranty. My older cars required minimal intervention and only required a set of wrenches.

Now a days it's getting harder to do it yourself. It's requires special tools to access the computers, in come cases just to reset the maintenance reminders. The reality is I can change the oil myself for $60 in parts, spend 2 hrs on the ground making a mess. Then I can't get rid of the oil without driving 30 miles to a county haz mat facility to find out they are on another freaken holiday. Get home clean up the spilled oil ins the car. Yes the auto parts stores are supposed to have an oil dump, but they are magically full all the time. The garbage man is supposed to take it but they just tag it with some BS excuse that it's picked up on the 7th Tues of the month, and leave it on the curb.

I tried rotating the tires on my Audi and that took 4 hrs because there is no way (that I can find) to get it on jack stands.

Probably need to turn in my Man Card.

This complaint alone qualified you with a Premium Man Card. So yeah, turn in the basic man card and and enjoy the perks of your REAL Man Card.
Automakers learned the money isn't in the sales anymore. They learned that there is more to be had in parts and servicing. And the only holdup were their greatest enemies; Chilton and Haynes manuals. So to counter, they started applying illogical engineering to prevent you and I from carrying out what used to be simple, routine repairs. Then they learned something else, yeah its harder and takes longer to replace that water pump. But the same applies to their mechanics. Already we can smell the hourly shop fees.

 

[SrC]

I am the warranty. I even hesitate to bring my new car in for some stupid warranty repairs, I can do myself. But I was a Toy tech at a dealership.
And automotive work is naturally my hobby anyway. I don't have to trust anyone to do my repairs. A luxury I have. Tools and all..
Regarding motor oil changes.I have never spent more than $40. or so $$ to do my OCI. Wally world has Mobil One for chep. And many Autozones or similar will give you a free filter with promotions. I plan ahead and always have fresh jugs and filters on hand. Believe it or not, the OE factory filters can be had cheaper than Autozone's STP garbage etc. FWIW. OE Filters are best. Short of a Wix premium , Mobil One filter and the rest . But had for like about $15. a piece. I found a deal on Royal Purple filters and got several as well. But OE filters are truly cheap if you go to the dealer or just order them. Toyota Oil filters cost me like $5.00 on average. Spin on type.
>>>A scantool to diagnose a trouble code can be had so cheaply these days. Like $25. I have several and even the expensive bi-directional one. I don't always even need that one. Even if you don't do the repair yourself, its good to know what is wrong with the car. New cars just require a scan tool these days.

Recycling Oil is a Federal and State law. Every state. Every shop or store that sells oil MUST take it. They even sell it off in many cases to get reycled anyway. And decent business knows this. Even Wallyworld. Whether you bought there or NOT. By law, Period. If they never do, Call up State and Fed EPA office and complain. They are not complying with EPA standards. Because they have bad business ethics. Been there many times. One too many times told their tank is full. I said then take the jug anyway for when your tank IS empty enough, and I left it there for them. Their tank being full is not your problem. Every shop and store MUST comply with EPA guidelines. A simple call will get them screwed up with a surprise visit and may get them more than just a fine for just having a supposed full tank of recycled oil. When EPA shows up and they check everything over, upsides down and sideways. Having an Auto repair shop or parts store is heavily regulated this way. Same with Autobody repair shops.
>>>If it is a problem to do your oil changes, just take it to a shop of your choice and you will always spend $80 or so on average. For the cheap oil in many cases. Stay away from The Quick lube places. They are NOT Certified mechanics AT ALL. If you care about your wheels. I've seen horror stories first hand at the dealer. Blown engines, turbos, all sludged out etc. and all. All because someone wanted that $19.95 special at their Quick Lube joint. Cars Sometimes leaving with no oil or very low. Wrong oil specs etc. Voiding car warranty etc. I seen one Toy car at my dealer and before Toy would warrantyy the whole engine, the oil was analyzed. It proved to be the wrong oil. Toyota declined a $7k engine replacement while under warranty. Owner was screwed with his late model low mileage Toyota.
At quick lube shops, Some filters are never even changed unbeknownst to you. Sometimes wrong oil. Using recycled motor oil. Stay clear away.
Not everyone has the expertise to do it themselves.... I get it.

 

[Jerold]

I am the warranty. I even hesitate to bring my new car in for some stupid warranty repairs, I can do myself. But I was a Toy tech at a dealership.
And automotive work is naturally my hobby anyway. I don't have to trust anyone to do my repairs. A luxury I have. Tools and all..
Regarding motor oil changes.I have never spent more than $40. or so $$ to do my OCI. Wally world has Mobil One for chep. And many Autozones or similar will give you a free filter with promotions. I plan ahead and always have fresh jugs and filters on hand. Believe it or not, the OE factory filters can be had cheaper than Autozone's STP garbage etc. FWIW. OE Filters are best. Short of a Wix premium , Mobil One filter and the rest . But had for like about $15. a piece. I found a deal on Royal Purple filters and got several as well. But OE filters are truly cheap if you go to the dealer or just order them. Toyota Oil filters cost me like $5.00 on average. Spin on type.
>>>A scantool to diagnose a trouble code can be had so cheaply these days. Like $25. I have several and even the expensive bi-directional one. I don't always even need that one. Even if you don't do the repair yourself, its good to know what is wrong with the car. New cars just require a scan tool these days.

Recycling Oil is a Federal and State law. Every state. Every shop or store that sells oil MUST take it. They even sell it off in many cases to get reycled anyway. And decent business knows this. Even Wallyworld. Whether you bought there or NOT. By law, Period. If they never do, Call up State and Fed EPA office and complain. They are not complying with EPA standards. Because they have bad business ethics. Been there many times. One too many times told their tank is full. I said then take the jug anyway for when your tank IS empty enough, and I left it there for them. Their tank being full is not your problem. Every shop and store MUST comply with EPA guidelines. A simple call will get them screwed up with a surprise visit and may get them more than just a fine for just having a supposed full tank of recycled oil. When EPA shows up and they check everything over, upsides down and sideways. Having an Auto repair shop or parts store is heavily regulated this way. Same with Autobody repair shops.
>>>If it is a problem to do your oil changes, just take it to a shop of your choice and you will always spend $80 or so on average. For the cheap oil in many cases. Stay away from The Quick lube places. They are NOT Certified mechanics AT ALL. If you care about your wheels. I've seen horror stories first hand at the dealer. Blown engines, turbos, all sludged out etc. and all. All because someone wanted that $19.95 special at their Quick Lube joint. Cars Sometimes leaving with no oil or very low. Wrong oil specs etc. Voiding car warranty etc. I seen one Toy car at my dealer and before Toy would warrantyy the whole engine, the oil was analyzed. It proved to be the wrong oil. Toyota declined a $7k engine replacement while under warranty. Owner was screwed with his late model low mileage Toyota.
At quick lube shops, Some filters are never even changed unbeknownst to you. Sometimes wrong oil. Using recycled motor oil. Stay clear away.
Not everyone has the expertise to do it themselves.... I get it.

Trust me I hear you bro and you hit the nail on the head.

However, things are different in California. Let me add some perspective.

This is shopping

This is the luxury housing

This is the local entrepreneur

New voters

Old voters

And this is pure evil

So even though it might Federal law I'm not sure how it applies, who in power gives a crap, nor can fix it. The state of California is so F-d up with their automotive policies the pretty much have ignored the world for decades and done their own thing regardless of any laws... even their own.

California is great at ignoring Federal laws they don't like.

 

[SrC]

I researched Cali well. I feel ya pain. Cali has their own set of standards based on an idyllical religion of sorts. Newsome is some card you got there. NYS no better.
I always had an interest in retiring there or near it. Been there many times. N-S. Friends and all there. Beautiful State. Better looking than NYS.
Now people from Cali are moving to Mexico. Imagine that? Moving across the border permanently.


Is it true Newsome wants to Tax you if you leave the State? Trying to pass the law or whatever?

Instead of making Cali a nice place to stay and live, and raise a fam., he now resorts to putting a gun to your head so you have to stay there. What a cringy thing to do.

 

[SrC]

While I'm not a fan of big brother in general, nor any overreaching..I think what the stealerships do as standard practice is deplorable. Such as selling my 20 something year old daughter a 3 year old car as "certified" pre owned and supplying just one key fob and telling her it's $500 for another. Or 3 months after buying the car, in a snow storm, every warning light and bell starts going off at once while driving to work at 6AM. She now lives 2.5 hours from the dealer she bought it from, they tell her they'll send a tow truck to haul it back at her expense, then evaluate it. Well, the car is still under a bumper to bumper factory warranty. So I tell her to bring it to the local Hyundai dealer, they looked at it and said someone has installed and removed a remote starter..harness under dash has been cut up.. needs a harness. Selling stealership looks at photos from the other dealer and suggests maybe someone tried to steal the car.. maybe, but we live very rural, she now lives even more rural. Highly unlikely. Took alot of screaming, threatening, ect..but they finally paid the other dealer to repair the car. Oh, and by the way, they suckered her into the extended warranty too..then STILL gave her a hard time. Limey bastards!! I could never work in sales, I wouldn't make a dime,LOL. "Uh, you really don't need this or that.."

Must be different in the Great White North, down here GM only offers 3/36 last I heard. Although it's been a few years since I looked, may have changed. I don't look at new any more, can't afford to. Bought one new vehicle in my 52 years, never again. Even if I had the scratch, no thanks.

Toyota is now only 2 years 24 mos warranty. Was always 3 year/36 for decades past.

 

[Tex Koder]

Toyota is now only 2 years 24 mos warranty. Was always 3 year/36 for decades past.

Is Toyota building iwatch-cars now..??

Only gadgets have such Lame short coverages..

 

[SrC]

This complaint alone qualified you with a Premium Man Card. So yeah, turn in the basic man card and and enjoy the perks of your REAL Man Card.
Automakers learned the money isn't in the sales anymore. They learned that there is more to be had in parts and servicing. And the only holdup were their greatest enemies; Chilton and Haynes manuals. So to counter, they started applying illogical engineering to prevent you and I from carrying out what used to be simple, routine repairs. Then they learned something else, yeah its harder and takes longer to replace that water pump. But the same applies to their mechanics. Already we can smell the hourly shop fees.

That's why "Right to Repair" has been lobbied for recently.

 

[SrC]

Is Toyota building iwatch-cars now..??

Only gadgets have such Lame short coverages..

Yeah the Toy dealer franchises push the extended warrantys. So Toyota Corporate doesn't have to care about you after 2 years,/24k miles. A win win for them. And we get screwed.

 

[Tex Koder]

Yeah the Toy dealer franchises push the extended warrantys. So Toyota Corporate doesn't have to care about you after 2 years,/24k miles. A win win for them. And we get screwed.

Yeah...?

The Problem with extended warranties is that most all of them from the dealership are Concurrent..
So if you buy an 2 year extended warranty... It's running along side the factory warranty!
Once it runs out, you're still SOL!

 

[SrC]

Yeah concurrent overlapping warrantys is the biggest scam going..Even PC Richards or Home depot , Best buy etc. does that when you buy a fridge stove or dishwasher. Its such a scam. They tend to deny claims anyway. I never had an extended warranty in any Car I ever owned. But I am the warranty in essence anyway. I had an LG washer brand new crap out on me. within a week. My then wife bought the stupid warranty. NP. Ironically PC Richards own service dept stepped up when The OE LG warranty failed to help me and swap out for new. No one even knew how to fix it. LG service guy came with an app on his phone and was clueless.. Kept asking me if my wifi is working. Can't make this crap up. Once The store agreed to swap for another they said I had to buy another warranty again because I technically used my first warranty for another new one.. I had a battle with them. They eventually gave the Extended warranty for free. Ext. Warranty don't come cheap. Its just snake oil. A scam.

 

[KnowAir]

Yeah the Toy dealer franchises push the extended warrantys. So Toyota Corporate doesn't have to care about you after 2 years,/24k miles. A win win for them. And we get screwed.

2/24?! Really? So lame.. a guarantee I wouldn't buy a Toyota new, even if I could afford it. Toyota has been on a steady decline since they started building them in the states from a quality/reliability perspective IMO. Honda too.. I bought my 08 F150 new, the market was prime due to the bank collapse..one and done. Never again will I buy new, or a Ford. I'd rather find something old in decent shape than payments on the new garbage. Regardless of brand.

 

[Greengaunja]

Yeah concurrent overlapping warrantys is the biggest scam going..Even PC Richards or Home depot , Best buy etc. does that when you buy a fridge stove or dishwasher. Its such a scam. They tend to deny claims anyway. I never had an extended warranty in any Car I ever owned. But I am the warranty in essence anyway. I had an LG washer brand new crap out on me. within a week. My then wife bought the stupid warranty. NP. Ironically PC Richards own service dept stepped up when The OE LG warranty failed to help me and swap out for new. No one even knew how to fix it. LG service guy came with an app on his phone and was clueless.. Kept asking me if my wifi is working. Can't make this crap up. Once The store agreed to swap for another they said I had to buy another warranty again because I technically used my first warranty for another new one.. I had a battle with them. They eventually gave the Extended warranty for free. Ext. Warranty don't come cheap. Its just snake oil. A scam.

Won't speak for now, but I did get 6 years from GMC(1 year extended on a 5 year bumper to bumper warranty). It very well likely helped that i personally knew the saleswoman. But yeah, for every story like mine there are 20 horrible ones. Store warranties are BS. They basically warranty whats already warrantied by the manufacturer. The only benefit is they exchange directly and send in the product and warranty with manufacturer themselves. A scam, really.
Interestingly, Amazon's warranties are easy pickings. I have a friend who bought Hoons for his Infraction. Had a 2 year Amazon warranty added to them. Claims he has gotten 5 sets for the price of one. Now Asurion refuses rc part warranties.

 

[KnowAir]

Won't speak for now, but I did get 6 years from GMC(1 year extended on a 5 year bumper to bumper warranty). It very well likely helped that i personally knew the saleswoman. But yeah, for every story like mine there are 20 horrible ones. Store warranties are BS. They basically warranty whats already warrantied by the manufacturer. The only benefit is they exchange directly and send in the product and warranty with manufacturer themselves. A scam, really.
Interestingly, Amazon's warranties are easy pickings. I have a friend who bought Hoons for his Infraction. Had a 2 year Amazon warranty added to them. Claims he has gotten 5 sets for the price of one. Now Asurion refuses rc part warranties.View attachment 337802

Yeah, looks like GM changed their warranty coverage since I last looked. A few years back, my daughter was looking at used cars. 2017 Cruze only had a 3/36 vs Hyundai 5/60. She bought an Elantra. Was an "okay" car..coil issues, which the stealershit gave her the run around on numerous times..they would go bad like clockwork. Which is really strange given my wife's Sonata is 10 years old with 140k and never any coil problems..

 

[Jerold]

Newsome is some card you got there.

And he's coming to a state near you. He wants to be president. He's termed out in Cali and working on his 2028 campaign. Notice he's trying to play nice with others. He's currently too mouthy even for his own people and turning a new leaf.

Basically he's a spoiled rich kid that knows how to skirt rules. If he were my kid there would be a good old fashion woodshed involved.