Car Dealerships' Junk Fees

[KnowAir]

For a while there, EVERYONE was paying sticker or higher than! I think the bubble has or is about to burst on that nonsense? I'm not sure since I "can't afford to pay attention",LOL.
But yeah, the art of negotiating is getting lost in this internet age..people are often intimidated enough by the slimy salesman, they'll just pay more online to avoid the scumbags. I get it, but I use the net to find the dealers who are consistently lower than others and start there. My wifes car (used) was listed at rock bottom price online, trust me, I tried..even had a legit blowout with the salesman on the showroom floor. Told my wife let's go, not buying from this guy!! Well, two weeks later, we're still looking, and they haven't called, car's still there (and she wants it)..so, with my tail tucked, I went back. Bought the car, went on with life. That was a rare occurrence though, at least for me.

 

[gotnitro]

For a while there, EVERYONE was paying sticker or higher than! I think the bubble has or is about to burst on that nonsense? I'm not sure since I "can't afford to pay attention",LOL.
But yeah, the art of negotiating is getting lost in this internet age..people are often intimidated enough by the slimy salesman, they'll just pay more online to avoid the scumbags. I get it, but I use the net to find the dealers who are consistently lower than others and start there. My wifes car (used) was listed at rock bottom price online, trust me, I tried..even had a legit blowout with the salesman on the showroom floor. Told my wife let's go, not buying from this guy!! Well, two weeks later, we're still looking, and they haven't called, car's still there (and she wants it)..so, with my tail tucked, I went back. Bought the car, went on with life. That was a rare occurrence though, at least for me.

Yep, cars on lots are still selling over sticker. I just bought a new RAV-4, great gas mileage, 5th one for what I need to do. I paid invoice - TDA Toyota advertising fees and $300 in the soup they call anything under invoice. I still got wacked on about 1.5% holdback which in the grand scheme of sales in a dealer today is a great deal. Actually, it's a better deal than most people could get before all the non-sense of the world happened.

Just remember:

Invoice-2% of invoice - $3-500 in advertising fees is actual dealer cost.

 

[Greengaunja]

You have:

Invoice which still reflects 2% called "hold back" and another $3-500 in advertising fees. Yes, YOU pay for car commercials.

Under that is under dealer cost. Keep in mind, it doesn't matter when, where, time of year, time of day, which day of the month it is, they still have a net cost. If it's a dealer that has a floor plan and pays JUICE on inventory, they will be more aggressive than the dealer that can buy all its own units. BUT, end of the day, it comes down to how bad they want to move a unit and cost is still cost.

True. And the worst part of the entire process is the more you can afford it, the less you have to pay. That's one of the problems I have with capitalism. And as you just pointed out, it's no different with dealers. The more they can afford to buy their lot inventory, the cheaper they can sell off per unit. And make up for it with volume sales.

 

[KnowAir]

Yep, cars on lots are still selling over sticker. I just bought a new RAV-4, great gas mileage, 5th one for what I need to do. I paid invoice - TDA Toyota advertising fees and $300 in the soup they call anything under invoice. I still got wacked on about 1.5% holdback which in the grand scheme of sales in a dealer today is a great deal. Actually, it's a better deal than most people could get before all the non-sense of the world happened.

Just remember:

Invoice-2% of invoice - $3-500 in advertising fees is actual dealer cost.

Is invoice different than sticker price? Are you saying invoice "-2%" and $3-500 advertising is their cost? Just curious, as I said, never again on new for me. I'll go with the 2-3 year old car at half price for the rest of my days. New is over rated to me.

 

[gotnitro]

True. And the worst part of the entire process is the more you can afford it, the less you have to pay. That's one of the problems I have with capitalism. And as you just pointed out, it's no different with dealers. The more they can afford to buy their lot inventory, the cheaper they can sell off per unit. And make up for it with volume sales.

Well, capitalism comes with its costs in the opposite direction too. If you were to open up loans and car costs to everyone, anyone could buy a car and at the same price and pay the same rate. (Let's call it a socialist car store ) However, not everyone will pay for it every month, be late, have it repo'd ETC. THEN those costs would be scattered throughout the people that CAN afford it, that's not fair either.

Is invoice different than sticker price? Are you saying invoice "-2%" and $3-500 advertising is their cost? Just curious, as I said, never again on new for me. I'll go with the 2-3 year old car at half price for the rest of my days. New is over rated to me.

Yes, invoice is much lower than sticker. Consider sticker MSRP. So, figure for talking sake, car costs 30k on the sticker, you have about 3300 in markup = $26,700 Invoice. Then you take 26,700 x 2% = another $534 to cost. Then - $300-$500 in advertising fees and you have dead NET. Dead net on a car that stickers for 30k would be $25,866 using the $300 advertising fee. This is an example but not too far off.

 

[KnowAir]

Well, capitalism comes with its costs in the opposite direction too. If you were to open up loans and car costs to everyone, anyone could buy a car and at the same price and pay the same rate. (Let's call it a socialist car store ) However, not everyone will pay for it every month, be late, have it repo'd ETC. THEN those costs would be scattered throughout the people that CAN afford it, that's not fair either.

No, invoice is much lower than sticker. Consider sticker MSRP. So, figure for talking sake, car costs 30k on the sticker, you have about 3300 in markup = $26,700 Invoice. Then you take 26,700 x 2% = another $534 to cost. Then - $300-$500 in advertising fees and you have dead NET. Dead net on a car that stickers for 30k would be $25,866 using the $300 advertising fee. This is an example but not too far off.

Got it. But invoice isn't available to the masses, correct?
No socialist car store (or anything)for me, thanks!! I'd rather sit down with Guido!!

 

[slick2500]

This one is easy at least. Because the tax isn't the same. Two people going into the
same dealership on the same day, buying the same model with the same trim package likely won't be paying the same price. Sure there is a sticker price but that has room to come down. How much it comes down depends on several factors. Has the dealership already covered their monthly quotas, good or bad day for the salesman, purchasing multiple vehicles at the same time, or are you paying with a sack of cash? I want to see listed clear breakdowns of the price with no surpriss by time you sit down and get ready to sign off. Also it makes the price look cheaper than it is.

That's not what I am talking about at all. What I am referring too is that here in South Dakota when you buy a car the sales tax is not included in the final price of the car. You have to go to the county courthouse and pay the vehicle taxes plus the registration fees within 45 days of purchase. Like I said I can understand this for private sales of cars but when at a stealer ship you should pay the taxes then and there not at a later date.

The way it set up here is literally like going to the grocery store buying a bunch of groceries and then having to pay the sales tax 30 days afterwards that makes no sense.

 

[jkflow]

With 3rd party involved, I can get 2% under invoice plus reduction in other fees. Granted, this is a supplier perk not accessible for everyone unless you work for a company that has agreements.
You can also negotiate your way down but it's tough. Time of day and desperation state of dealership will dictate.
Doesn't help if you have 5 people standing behind you wanting the same car.

Best time to buy in FL is still end of December as the tax deadline looms for the dealership.

In FL all cost is included by the time you walk out i.e. Tax, Title & License etc. No fees once you signed, thought that would be 'normal' and surprised to see that different states do it differently.

 

[KnowAir]

With 3rd party involved, I can get 2% under invoice plus reduction in other fees. Granted, this is a supplier perk not accessible for everyone unless you work for a company that has agreements.
You can also negotiate your way down but it's tough. Time of day and desperation state of dealership will dictate.
Doesn't help if you have 5 people standing behind you wanting the same car.

Best time to buy in FL is still end of December as the tax deadline looms for the dealership.

In FL all cost is included by the time you walk out i.e. Tax, Title & License etc. No fees once you signed, thought that would be 'normal' and surprised to see that different states do it differently.

Yeah, they're manipulating the supply to control the cost or drive it up, I'm convinced. "They" may not be the stealership itself, but rather the puppet masters who are really pulling the strings of the global economy. It's all a puppet show I feel..the matrix is real!!

That's not what I am talking about at all. What I am referring too is that here in South Dakota when you buy a car the sales tax is not included in the final price of the car. You have to go to the county courthouse and pay the vehicle taxes plus the registration fees within 45 days of purchase. Like I said I can understand this for private sales of cars but when at a stealer ship you should pay the taxes then and there not at a later date.

The way it set up here is literally like going to the grocery store buying a bunch of groceries and then having to pay the sales tax 30 days afterwards that makes no sense.

Here in the rotten apple, the stealership can't sell an auto without reg'ing it through DMV before the auto leaves their hands..along with proof of insurance, yadda yadda..

 

[gotnitro]

Got it. But invoice isn't available to the masses, correct?
No socialist car store (or anything)for me, thanks!! I'd rather sit down with Guido!!

Invoicing can be found online with the exact options. You have to work your own deal with those clowns, you have to say I know invoice, are you under or over, then start walking and play the game, it's the only way really. Thats WHEN we have enough chips available, and they have many cars on the lot they need to get rid of. Today, forgetaboutit. In another 10 months or so, GAME ON!

 

[KnowAir]

Invoicing can be found online with the exact options. You have to work your own deal with those clowns, you have to say I know invoice, are you under or over, then start walking and play the game, it's the only way really. Thats WHEN we have enough chips available, and they have many cars on the lot they need to get rid of. Today, forgetaboutit. In another 10 months or so, GAME ON!

Maybe after Brandon's gone..gotta help!

 

[Jerold]

Not sure I follow this? A private business is charging fees and the government says you can't do that.

Vote with your $$. JMO, They can call fees whatever they want, but if you don't want the pay what they want, don't buy it.

More government regulation always means you pay more in the end. They will change the cleaning fee to "environmental mitigation service". To which you respond, "I don't want that" and they say "It's already done and there are no backsies" The difference is they had to up the cost by 2% to pay the army of lawyers that rebranded the fee.

 

[Tex Koder]

Not sure I follow this? A private business is charging fees and the government says you can't do that.

Vote with your $$. JMO, They can call fees whatever they want, but if you don't want the pay what they want, don't buy it.

More government regulation always means you pay more in the end. They will change the cleaning fee to "environmental mitigation service". To which you respond, "I don't want that" and they say "It's already done and there are no backsies" The difference is they had to up the cost by 2% to pay the army of lawyers that rebranded the fee.

Most consumers think they are dealing with individual 'private' car dealerships..
But in reality these "dealerships" are now all part of Mega Conglomerates (controlled by a dozen or so).. and they basically act like monopolies.

So even if you think you are 'voting with your hard earn $$$'.. by shopping around or going to their competitors, you're just going to the Same company with a different signage..

What happens behind the scenes is quite insidious.
Because they not only Know where you've shopped at (dealerships in their 'network'), they can also see what you've looked at [vehicle(s)] and/or who you were negotiating with, if or what your trading in etc etc.

 

[PeighDay]

I’ve been looking for over a year to find my wife a Kia Sportage SX Prestige Hybrid. I’ve called multiple states talked to probably 20 different dealers and all have a 5k to 10k “market markup”. None of them will budge. Since I have been purchasing cars I have never paid anything close to MSRP. Most dealers tell me “it’s the new normal”.

The auto industry F%#* themselves when they shut down there factories and stopped ordering chips from TSMC, who then allocated the manufacturing to other companies. Hence why the chip storage they all seem to complain about.

Most dealerships only exist today in states where laws are written into the books to not allow auto manufacturers to sell direct to customers. How’s that for government regulations. Tesla seems to do fine with it.

 

[Greengaunja]

Most consumers think they are dealing with individual 'private' car dealerships..
But in reality these "dealerships" are now all part of Mega Conglomerates (controlled by a dozen or so).. and they basically act like monopolies.

So even if you think you are 'voting with your hard earn $$$'.. by shopping around or going to their competitors, you're just going to the Same company with a different signage..

What happens behind the scenes is quite insidious.
Because they not only Know where you've shopped at (dealerships in their 'network'), they can also see what you've looked at [vehicle(s)] and/or who you were negotiating with, if or what your trading in etc etc.

Just like we we do searches online. No matter the site, information is retained and used for targeted ads, calls, texts and emails. Never again will I attempt to look up Midget Donkey Porn.

 

[Tex Koder]

Just like we we do searches online. No matter the site, information is retained and used for targeted ads, calls, texts and emails. Never again will I attempt to look up Midget Donkey Porn.

That can really come back and bite you when you least expect it.....

 

[gotnitro]

I’ve been looking for over a year to find my wife a Kia Sportage SX Prestige Hybrid. I’ve called multiple states talked to probably 20 different dealers and all have a 5k to 10k “market markup”. None of them will budge. Since I have been purchasing cars I have never paid anything close to MSRP. Most dealers tell me “it’s the new normal”.

The auto industry F%#* themselves when they shut down there factories and stopped ordering chips from TSMC, who then allocated the manufacturing to other companies. Hence why the chip storage they all seem to complain about.

Most dealerships only exist today in states where laws are written into the books to not allow auto manufacturers to sell direct to customers. How’s that for government regulations. Tesla seems to do fine with it.

The auto industry never stopped ordering chips, our government stopped/slowed them down for the new green scam and blamed covid. Just keeping it real.

 

[PeighDay]

The auto industry never stopped ordering chips, our government stopped/slowed them down for the new green scam and blamed covid. Just keeping it real.

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2021/06/15/car-chip-shortage-2021/7688773002/

 

[gotnitro]

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2021/06/15/car-chip-shortage-2021/7688773002/

Total left press. Follow the money back to lithium.

 

[PeighDay]

Total left press. Follow the money back to lithium.

Here is some more for you. I followed the money.

https://www.jpmorgan.com/insights/global-research/supply-chain/chip-shortage

https://a2globalelectronics.com/sho...-19 pandemic,profitable, higher-volume orders.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/1...es-to-continue-throughout-2023-industry-says/