Let’s see your EV!

[gotnitro]

I’m not driving a Tesla because of the emissions, I drive it because it’s a great car and it’s economical to run.

The real question isn’t decomposition it’s recycling. Tesla wants every single lithium battery they can get to recycle as it is essentially high grade ore. None will be left to decompose, the real question is how “green” is the recycling process.

Not really my main concern but it is Elon’s. Tesla’s mission is not to sell cars it’s to save the planet. Based on his track record I am not inclined to disagree with his conclusions.

I’d beg to differ.. If Elon was so green, why does he launch rockets? Let’s be honest, he’s a very smart man! I wouldn’t have invested many many dollars into Tesla years ago If I though differently..

One rocket launch is the equivalent to almost 400 trans Atlantic flights. He’s a smart man as I said, trust me when I tell you he knows that rocket emissions too! He also stated recently that he disagrees with the current administrations policy’s on creating our own oil/gas. So therefore we are still stuck buying oil from countries that want us DEAD while the government purges and upcharges gas pricing to gas car drivers.

Until Russia, India and China climb on board with “saving the planet” and not using 2 cycle engines, change their countries emmission standards ETC, a few Tesla/ other makes of Ev’s sales will NOT help what so ever other than pissing off Americans and people that can not afford a new car right now in a recession created by the current government.

 

[The Bean]

I’d beg to differ.. If Elon was so green, why does he launch rockets? Let’s be honest, he’s a very smart man! I wouldn’t have invested many many dollars into Tesla years ago If I though differently..

One rocket launch is the equivalent to almost 400 trans Atlantic flights. He’s a smart man as I said, trust me when I tell you he knows that rocket emissions too! He also stated recently that he disagrees with the current administrations policy’s on creating our own oil/gas. So therefore we are still stuck buying oil from countries that want us DEAD while the government purges and upcharges gas pricing to gas car drivers.

Until Russia, India and China climb on board with “saving the planet” and not using 2 cycle engines, change their countries emmission standards ETC, a few Tesla/ other makes of Ev’s sales will NOT help what so ever other than pissing off Americans and people that can not afford a new car right now in a recession created by the current government.

Manufacturing rockets is very bad for the environment. Elon is trying to make reusable rockets to reduce the impact on the environment.
His Mars mission is quite wasteful, however, IMO.

Poorer countries are sadly asked to change before western countries, even though they can't afford it as easily. We as the western society must develop first, the rest will follow. Solar and wind energy are cheaper than ever, and even turning your thermostat down a couple degs has a massive positive impact on your impact on the environment.

As a Dutch person, I can say that even in the worst case scenario, Dutch lives won't be in as much danger as others, but Americans are dying because of climate change. Flooding, fires, hurricanes are all increasingly severe because of global warming.

Other countries don't want the USA dead. As far as I've understood, every single country wants to be like the USA. Even (younger) Russians, Chinese etc.

 

[gotnitro]

Manufacturing rockets is very bad for the environment. Elon is trying to make reusable rockets to reduce the impact on the environment.
His Mars mission is quite wasteful, however, IMO.

Could have would have should have.. If my aunt had balls she’d be my uncle.

I’m “trying” to not say the F word as much. Until I actually stop, I’m guilty.

 

[SrC]

View attachment 211160View attachment 211161Here’s mine… went from paying almost $500 a month to paying about $90 a month.

140 mile range
From 0% to full in less than 10 hours w/220 outlet

Oh and let’s not forget the instant torque. This thing soars smoothly from 0-92mph pretty quickly. Plenty of passing power, plenty “stop light to stop light” power this thing is awesome..

I imagine you paid "Over sticker Price " for it????? IDK. Nice one there.
I went Dealer browsing recently just to have a laugh. Where I am , everything is price gouged. Dealer prices vary by regional demand for them.
Now is not the time to buy a car. At least for me. I am not an EV follower. Or at least not convinced just yet. I don't want to be a guinea pig.
Never felt paying a premium for EV/ Hybrids could be recouped by the gas savings alone. Regardless of the price of gas these days. And by artificially keeping gas prices high like they are, many think or are compelled that EV's are the way to go.
It is the future of things to come no doubt.
I am just not ready to embrace it yet.
I follow the EV industry very closely and religiously.
Have driven many types of them at my job, even the Toyota Mirai Hydrogen car. Drove it for a month. Was a NYC fleet car Test program. It felt like it was NASA space car. And it actually made more sense than an EV, after one month of driving it.

 

[SrC]

Manufacturing rockets is very bad for the environment. Elon is trying to make reusable rockets to reduce the impact on the environment.
His Mars mission is quite wasteful, however, IMO.

Poorer countries are sadly asked to change before western countries, even though they can't afford it as easily. We as the western society must develop first, the rest will follow. Solar and wind energy are cheaper than ever, and even turning your thermostat down a couple degs has a massive positive impact on your impact on the environment.

As a Dutch person, I can say that even in the worst case scenario, Dutch lives won't be in as much danger as others, but Americans are dying because of climate change. Flooding, fires, hurricanes are all increasingly severe because of global warming.

Other countries don't want the USA dead. As far as I've understood, every single country wants to be like the USA. Even (younger) Russians, Chinese etc.

I got to agree with @gotnitro in every sense.
Every sentence you stated, I completely say the opposite. Being/ thinking Green and Eco conscious is just a byproduct of the BIG ECO industry that is funded by Corps. Just powerful propaganda. Many early adopters of the whole "Global Warming" agenda have reversed their opinions on this based on actual contemporary data. Just it's too late. The big green machine thing is dominant now and permeates out society. A false agenda, with skewed data to support a huge money making industry. Wind farms destroy quality of life with diminished valued real estate. Are completely cost inefficient when considering End Of Life. Data that is buried and hidden.
Which in turn is funded by Gov't grants and Tax breaks. It is a money maker based on many false narratives. Think Wind and Solar Farms. Not cost efficient at all. Never was and is still not. Which also hurts the Eco system. Many choose to ignore this. Because opposing it, hurts the pockets of the solar and Wind industries that became huge. Feeling Eco conscious appears to make us feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Just foolish Bragging rights and all.
Unfortunately it is a false sense of security. Carbon footprint of Petro alternatives is actually higher. Including the EV market. A bait and switch game that has been proven over and over again. EV's will always have their place. But there are better alternatives. EV Battery production is so toxic to the world globally. Many don't see this. What we don't see or know doesn't hurt us mentality. China pollutes horribly with EV Lipo production.
No one talks about this at all. And we are sucking in the fumes all across the globe. Yet having our EV's plugged into our homes and charging makes us somehow feel like we are Pioneers with the whole Eco thing. While all the Elitists are jet setting around in their planes instead of using Rail trains just as easily. Container shipping, Planes and Cruise ships are the highest polluting Globally. And no one wants talk about that and to address them. It's because being Eco conscious and Global Warming is a false narrative. Being pushed onto the little guy with his EV in his driveway.
Total hypocrisy.
Sorry.

Edited.

 

[Rcproponent]

I imagine you paid "Over sticker Price " for it????? IDK. Nice one there.
I went Dealer browsing recently just to have a laugh. Where I am , everything is price gouged. Dealer prices vary by regional demand for them.
Now is not the time to buy a car. At least for me. I am not an EV follower. Or at least not convinced just yet. I don't want to be a guinea pig.
Never felt paying a premium for EV/ Hybrids could be recouped by the gas savings alone. Regardless of the price of gas these days. And by artificially keeping gas prices high like they are, many think or are compelled that EV's are the way to go.
It is the future of things to come no doubt.
I am just not ready to embrace it yet.
I follow the EV industry very closely and religiously.
Have driven many types of them at my job, even the Toyota Mirai Hydrogen car. Drove it for a month. Was a NYC fleet car Test program. It felt like it was NASA space car. And it actually made more sense than an EV, after one month of driving it.

Nope, didn’t pay over sticker for it..

The only reason i sold myself on it is that the payment + electrical costs put together are still cheaper than what I was paying for my gas vehicle… I needed a new vehicle anyways so figured this would be the smartest route for me.

Gets me to and from work with 30% or more remaining battery.

Not having to fill your tank once or more a week is pretty sweet, just get home and plug her in.

 

[LibertyMKiii]

I got to agree with @gotnitro in every sense.
Every sentence you stated, I completely say the opposite. Being/ thinking Green and Eco conscious is just a byproduct of the BIG ECO industry that is funded by Corps. Just powerful propaganda. Many early adopters of the whole "Global Warming" agenda have reversed their opinions on this based on actual contemporary data. Just it's too late. The big green machine thing is dominant now and permeates out society. A false agenda, with skewed data to support a huge money making industry. Wind farms destroy quality of life with diminished valued real estate. Are completely cost inefficient when considering End Of Life. Data that is buried and hidden.
Which in turn is funded by Gov't grants and Tax breaks. It is a money maker based on many false narratives. Think Wind and Solar Farms. Not cost efficient at all. Never was and is still not. Which also hurts the Eco system. Many choose to ignore this. Because opposing it, hurts the pockets of the solar and Wind industries that became huge. Feeling Eco conscious appears to make us feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Just foolish Bragging rights and all.
Unfortunately it is a false sense of security. Carbon footprint of Petro alternatives is actually higher. Including the EV market. A bait and switch game that has been proven over and over again. EV's will always have their place. But there are better alternatives. EV Battery production is so toxic to the world globally. Many don't see this. What we don't see or know doesn't hurt us mentality. China pollutes horribly with EV Lipo production.
No one talks about this at all. And we are sucking in the fumes all across the globe. Yet having our EV's plugged into our homes and charging makes us somehow feel like we are Pioneers with the whole Eco thing. While all the Elitists are jet setting around in their planes instead of using Rail trains just as easily. Container shipping, Planes and Cruise ships are the highest polluting Globally. And no one wants talk about that and to address them. It's because being Eco conscious and Global Warming is a false narrative. Being pushed onto the little guy with his EV in his driveway.
Total hypocrisy.
Sorry.

Edited.

I agree completely.
Best thing you can do is maintain and repair and old vehicle. Even if it is not great on gas.

I always try to talk people out of buying hybrids. Large EV batteries don't last that long and the replacement cost is crazy $4-10k

The only thing that would have made the EV thing work for me is if all the manufacturers agreed on a battery module that could be interchanged and swapped at gas stations in 5 mins via a drive through process. Then they take care of maintenance /disposal of the cells as needed.

 

[L3phturn]

Until Russia, India and China climb on board with “saving the planet” and not using 2 cycle engines, change their countries emmission standards ETC, a few Tesla/ other makes of Ev’s sales will NOT help what so ever other than pissing off Americans and people that can not afford a new car right now in a recession created by the current government.

That's a lot of bad assumptions and incorrect information. I'm not driving a Tesla to save the planet, I'm driving it because it's a great car. You go ahead and disagree with Elon on this but I'll put my money on him every time. The US is not in a recession. It was after the pandemic in 2019-2020 but the programs put in place helped pull the country out of it. https://www2.deloitte.com/us/en/ins...-forecast/united-states-outlook-analysis.html

The entire world is feeling the effects of the pandemic, supply chain disruptions, the war in Ukraine, and major changes in the labour markets that are driving global inflation, but no recession yet. That is why the fed is working to cool off the economy by raising rates, and that could lead to a recession if spending pulls back too far while attempting to curb inflation, but we are a long way from that. It doesn't matter what country, if their leaders are right or left, or anything else, the world is experiencing the same impacts and inflation. Changing political leadership one way or another won't impact the global economy enough to make the current challenges magically vanish.

 

[#ARRMArcfanboy4life]

The US is not in a recession.

Says one of the people who doesn't live in the SA (Not so united)

The only thing that would have made the EV thing work for me is if all the manufacturers agreed on a battery module that could be interchanged and swapped at gas stations in 5 mins via a drive through process. Then they take care of maintenance /disposal of the cells as needed.

Can we make you in charge of the auto industry? That is genius

 

[LibertyMKiii]

Can we make you in charge of the auto industry? That is genius

It would never happen sadly. Everyone wants to make money and do things slightly different.

 

[L3phturn]

I agree completely.
Best thing you can do is maintain and repair and old vehicle. Even if it is not great on gas.

I always try to talk people out of buying hybrids. Large EV batteries don't last that long and the replacement cost is crazy $4-10k

The only thing that would have made the EV thing work for me is if all the manufacturers agreed on a battery module that could be interchanged and swapped at gas stations in 5 mins via a drive through process. Then they take care of maintenance /disposal of the cells as needed.

Tesla battery packs last a very long time. I'm not sure what you think the lifetime of them is, but the warranty is 8 years 120k miles. With very few exceptions I have only heard of 10 year old + Model S's doing battery replacements. There won't be any disposal, Tesla wants every one of them back as they will be recycled. Recycled battery packs are the highest grade ore they can get. Battery replacements can run $5k-$25k but they don't really know how long the batteries in the 3s and Ys will last yet. The packs have improved rapidly along with the battery chemistry. My car's pack is liquid cooled with a sophisticated battery management system that Tesla monitors continuously. It's very likely these packs will maintain 70% of their initial capacity for 10 years or more.

At one point Tesla actually demonstrated an automated battery pack swap "service station" but they dropped that plan once the battery technology and pack life improved enough. For those with older model S and Xs that are coming out of warranty there is a service plan option a company does out of North Carolina. https://warranty.057tech.com/ They don't offer one for the 3 or Y yet because there is no demand for it.

 

[LibertyMKiii]

Tesla battery packs last a very long time. I'm not sure what you think the lifetime of them is, but the warranty is 8 years 120k miles. With very few exceptions I have only heard of 10 year old + Model S's doing battery replacements. There won't be any disposal, Tesla wants every one of them back as they will be recycled. Recycled battery packs are the highest grade ore they can get. Battery replacements can run $5k-$25k but they don't really know how long the batteries in the 3s and Ys will last yet. The packs have improved rapidly along with the battery chemistry. My car's pack is liquid cooled with a sophisticated battery management system that Tesla monitors continuously. It's very likely these packs will maintain 70% of their initial capacity for 10 years or more.

At one point Tesla actually demonstrated an automated battery pack swap "service station" but they dropped that plan once the battery technology and pack life improved enough. For those with older model S and Xs that are coming out of warranty there is a service plan option a company does out of North Carolina. https://warranty.057tech.com/ They don't offer one for the 3 or Y yet because there is no demand for it.

Tesla is certainly the exception in the EV industry. I know some people who had a Prius and those batteries seem to not last very long 6-8 years and costs around $4k.
Prior to COVID when your used car is worth about 8k and needs a batter replacement for 4k that was a big deal. Now used cars are worth more for no reason so the numbers don't look as dramatic.

I traded in my 4 Runner because they built it in a way that I could not replace the brake master cylinder myself. The ABS unit is integrated and the routine to bleed the air requires a Toyota dealer to do it. Plus no aftermarket offers a replacement part. It was a similar deal that the truck was worth about 4-6k and the repair was going to cost 2-3k. I refuse to own a car in that 50% scenario that already has high mileage. By Felicia!

 

[L3phturn]

Tesla is certainly the exception in the EV industry. I know some people who had a Prius and those batteries seem to not last very long 6-8 years and costs around $4k.
Prior to COVID when your used car is worth about 8k and needs a batter replacement for 4k that was a big deal. Now used cars are worth more for no reason so the numbers don't look as dramatic.

I traded in my 4 Runner because they built it in a way that I could not replace the brake master cylinder myself. The ABS unit is integrated and the routine to bleed the air requires a Toyota dealer to do it. Plus no aftermarket offers a replacement part. It was a similar deal that the truck was worth about 4-6k and the repair was going to cost 2-3k. I refuse to own a car in that 50% scenario that already has high mileage. By Felicia!

I just got rid of my 12 year old Mitsubishi Outlander. That thing was good to me, great vehicle. I do my own maintenance as well, but with the Tesla that means changing between winter/summer wheels and tires and checking and lubricating the brakes. Windshield washer fluid and new wipers occasionally and that's all there is to it.

 

[gotnitro]

That's a lot of bad assumptions and incorrect information. I'm not driving a Tesla to save the planet, I'm driving it because it's a great car. You go ahead and disagree with Elon on this but I'll put my money on him every time. The US is not in a recession. It was after the pandemic in 2019-2020 but the programs put in place helped pull the country out of it. https://www2.deloitte.com/us/en/ins...-forecast/united-states-outlook-analysis.html

The entire world is feeling the effects of the pandemic, supply chain disruptions, the war in Ukraine, and major changes in the labour markets that are driving global inflation, but no recession yet. That is why the fed is working to cool off the economy by raising rates, and that could lead to a recession if spending pulls back too far while attempting to curb inflation, but we are a long way from that. It doesn't matter what country, if their leaders are right or left, or anything else, the world is experiencing the same impacts and inflation. Changing political leadership one way or another won't impact the global economy enough to make the current challenges magically vanish.

IF there were no "new green deal" efforts, IF the Canadian guvment wasn't in bed with the current US guvment, we would STILL be producing our own oil and it would be sold to Canada. Now because of these efforts, both guvments are "capitalizing" on gas, yes, they are making money selling it to us at a MUCH higher profit than before. They are trying to price you out at the gas pump to make you jump on their agenda. Because of the NGD efforts, gas pricing was going WAY up before the WAR in Ukraine even started and its still climbing.

If no one thinks this government OR the Canadian government is doing that to you, I have some ocean front property to give you for FREE in Arizona. I'm not disagreeing with Elon whatsoever; I have enough just Tesla stock to buy 3 top of the line EV's. Elon himself said what the government is doing with gas prices is wrong.

BTW, none of my information is incorrect. Have you ever been to China? Have you ever been to India? I have and I can tell you for certain, the scooters in both countries that run on 2 cycle oils are one of the main problems. Fix them, I'll jump on board. BUT, until then you cant MAKE a country simply convert over to EV's when 99% of the population still uses gas.

If you want to know what's really going on you have to look for it. No search engine, no media source is telling you squat about the truth.

 

[LibertyMKiii]

I just got rid of my 12 year old Mitsubishi Outlander. That thing was good to me, great vehicle. I do my own maintenance as well, but with the Tesla that means changing between winter/summer wheels and tires and checking and lubricating the brakes. Windshield washer fluid and new wipers occasionally and that's all there is to it.

I don't have anything against Tesla, I think they are changing the reputation of EVs in a good way.
I love that they equipped them with powerful motors and some of the best EV batteries on the market.

I think it all comes down to your reason for owning one. If you got it because its fast, fun and you like it.... then more power to you. Enjoy it!!!!

The others in this thread are arguing that its not better for the environment. (their point is valid)
The other aspect is for the 500-900 a month payment of your new vehicle you could afford to have someone do the maintenance on your old vehicle for you and pay for the gas.

 

[The Bean]

Can we make you in charge of the auto industry? That is genius

Some brand in China I'd trying to implement a similar system. One that swaps batts instead of charging them

 

[L3phturn]

I don't have anything against Tesla, I think they are changing the reputation of EVs in a good way.
I love that they equipped them with powerful motors and some of the best EV batteries on the market.

I think it all comes down to your reason for owning one. If you got it because its fast, fun and you like then more power to you. Enjoy it!!!!

The others in this thread are arguing that its not better for the environment. (their point is valid)
The other aspect is for the 500-900 a month payment of your new vehicle you could afford to have someone do the maintenance on your old vehicle for you and pay for the gas.

The old Mitsubishi was dying and needEd repairs that will cost as much as it’s value. It’s not worth the hassle, expense, and time it takes to keep it running.

Also I didn’t finance it the traditional way, I am paying net 1% per year with no principle repayment after borrowing against my crypto assets while still staking the coins and insuring against protocol risk. I pay that net 1% cost with yield I make on other crypto assets, so I don’t have any monthly payment. I get that very few people will have the assets, knowledge, and willingness to learn allows me to do this, but it totally changes the math for me. I could do the same with any car I choose, but the Tesla is the top of my list. I am spending far less total annually for my Model 3 than I was for maintenance and gas for my Mitsubishi.

 

[JvG]

Some brand in China I'd trying to implement a similar system. One that swaps batts instead of charging them

Renault already tried this 10 years ago (Better place) but failed.
Nio and Geely are picking it up now

https://insideevs.com/news/507081/renault-battery-swapping-considered-ceo/

 

[#ARRMArcfanboy4life]

Some brand in China I'd trying to implement a similar system. One that swaps batts instead of charging them

I think they should do it like the propane tanks for a grill. You take it to the changing place, pay a few bucks, and get a new battery and they recharge the old one. I also think they should have the ability to be charged at home.

 

[Jerry-rigged]

BTW, none of my information is incorrect. Have you ever been to China? Have you ever been to India? I have and I can tell you for certain, the scooters in both countries that run on 2 cycle oils are one of the main problems. Fix them, I'll jump on board. BUT, until then you cant MAKE a country simply convert over to EV's when 99% of the population still uses gas.

This guy tends to speak in hyperbole, but he generally has good info-
Video high points - Taiwan now has more e-scooter battery swap stations than gas stations. Battery swap station company has deals with many scooter / motorcycle mfgrs to use their tech (including the largest motorbike mfgr in India). almost 30% of new scooters sold in Taiwan are Electric.

I am not a greenie, heck, I make my money in oil and gas. But EV's are here to stay, and the tipping point is coming - IMHO it will avalanche here in the USA when we get 2 new products - First a light commercial van EV, like a sprinter van and/or a Transit van. Delivery companies will jump onboard so fast it will be silly. 2nd is a 4-door compact car for small families that sells for around $25k, with 200m range. China / BYD already sells a EV that meets this goal, but thanks to the Chicken Tax and Trump's Asia taxes, we won't see BYD in the USA any time soon.
I have spent some time is South Korea, and the shear number of scooters and motor bikes is crazy. 49cc and under, they are not regulated at all, and under 250cc the regulations are still very light. Scooters and motorcycles probably out number cars 50-1. Rush hour traffic is insane, with the scooters taking over the roads like ants....

Even with large scale adoption, it will take several decades to get all those scooters off the road. But I can see it happen.