Let’s see your EV!

[LibertyMKiii]

The old Mitsubishi was dying and needEd repairs that will cost as much as it’s value. It’s not worth the hassle, expense, and time it takes to keep it running.

Also I didn’t finance it the traditional way, I am paying net 1% per year with no principle repayment after borrowing against my crypto assets while still staking the coins and insuring against protocol risk. I pay that net 1% cost with yield I make on other crypto assets, so I don’t have any monthly payment. I get that very few people will have the assets, knowledge, and willingness to learn allows me to do this, but it totally changes the math for me. I could do the same with any car I choose, but the Tesla is the top of my list. I am spending far less total annually for my Model 3 than I was for maintenance and gas for my Mitsubishi.

Wow that is cool. Congrats on getting in on that gold mine early.
I had some dogecoin that I sold too early

 

[gotnitro]

This guy tends to speak in hyperbole, but he generally has good info-
Video high points - Taiwan now has more e-scooter battery swap stations than gas stations. Battery swap station company has deals with many scooter / motorcycle mfgrs to use their tech (including the largest motorbike mfgr in India). almost 30% of new scooters sold in Taiwan are Electric.

I am not a greenie, heck, I make my money in oil and gas. But EV's are here to stay, and the tipping point is coming - IMHO it will avalanche here in the USA when we get 2 new products - First a light commercial van EV, like a sprinter van and/or a Transit van. Delivery companies will jump onboard so fast it will be silly. 2nd is a 4-door compact car for small families that sells for around $25k, with 200m range. China / BYD already sells a EV that meets this goal, but thanks to the Chicken Tax and Trump's Asia taxes, we won't see BYD in the USA any time soon.
I have spent some time is South Korea, and the shear number of scooters and motor bikes is crazy. 49cc and under, they are not regulated at all, and under 250cc the regulations are still very light. Scooters and motorcycles probably out number cars 50-1. Rush hour traffic is insane, with the scooters taking over the roads like ants....

Even with large scale adoption, it will take several decades to get all those scooters off the road. But I can see it happen.

Love it! I'm no EV hater, I'm a tyrannical government hater! Don't tell me how to spend my money and don't take away the ability to make money by increasing the means to get to work based off one sided narrative! I've also been to Tiawan twice, I know exactly what you are talking about. It's the same in the rest of China, India and I'm sure Russia but I've never been to Russia.

You have to get the main polluting countries first. That's not going to happen anytime soon as you've stated. After all, we all breath the SAME air.

 

[SrC]

Nope, didn’t pay over sticker for it..

The only reason i sold myself on it is that the payment + electrical costs put together are still cheaper than what I was paying for my gas vehicle… I needed a new vehicle anyways so figured this would be the smartest route for me.

Gets me to and from work with 30% or more remaining battery.

Not having to fill your tank once or more a week is pretty sweet, just get home and plug her in.

If it works for you is all that matters. EV's have their place. No one else can judge in the end.
When gas prices are very low, people rush to buy Large ICE SUV's. Remember when gas was $2./gal only a few years ago. My neighbor got a new Escalade.
He just recently traded it in for a Prius. He was upside down on his note. Paid well over sticker to have a Hybrid. Lost big $$$. Now his whole family of 6 has to squeeze into the Prius. I think his $loss$ outweighs any future gas savings. IMO. Gets paid handsomely. Works for UPS. Whatever works for him. Just the math doesn't add up.
When gas prices go up, then people buy Small econo cars, Hybrids and EV's.
It becomes a roller coaster ride for the car industry. And people follow like clockwork. Changing cars like their sox.

 

[LibertyMKiii]

If it works for you is all that matters. EV's have their place. No one else can judge in the end.
When gas prices are very low, people rush to buy Large ICE SUV's. Remember when gas was $2./gal only a few years ago. My neighbor got a new Escalade.
He just recently traded it in for a Prius. He was upside down on his note. Paid well over sticker to have a Hybrid. Lost big $$$. Now his whole family of 6 has to squeeze into the Prius. I think his $loss$ outweighs any future gas savings. IMO. Gets paid handsomely. Works for UPS. Whatever works for him. Just the math doesn't add up.
When gas prices go up, then people buy Small econo cars, Hybrids and EV's.
It becomes a roller coaster ride for the car industry. And people follow like clockwork. Changing cars like their sox.

We compared it once and it was going to equate to something like an $80.00 difference in fuel savings going from an large SUV to a hybrid. I'd rather have the power and size that we like/need. I can find a way to make up that 80-100 bucks a month elsewhere.

 

[SrC]

+1
A one driver small commuter car as a second car in the household can make perfect sense if is a sub $30k EV.
Not if it is a $60k+ Tesla or similar. There isn't much ROI. Quite the opposite.
Taking trips over 700+ miles doesn't make sense with EV's. Takes much longer to travel. And you are stuck wasting precious travel time at a Supercharger Station with few amenities. Better with a Hybrid for traveling. A plane or bus would even be cheaper for traveling. Just need to rent a car at your destination.
Yet Hybrids get best Fuel economy only when in stop and go traffic. Not when on the highways. At HWY cruising speeds the engine is also always ON along with the EV motor. Hence why Hybrids are less efficient. Best hybrid advertised economy is with local driving/commutes.

Tesla only represents 3% of total cars on the road here in the states.
Need to have road side charging insurance in case you get stuck.
I've seen Tesla's stuck on the side of the road with emergency roadside service trucks charging them. It's a thing.
Being stuck on the side of a highway is a great safety liability if you ask me.
Also where I live, household electricity to charge an EV does not come cheap. Electricity is not free. And electricity pollutes also.
The whole Green concept here is a hoax if you ask me.

Here in the States no one is addressing the poor state of the electrical Grid that exists right now.
This infrastructure has been neglected. It would never support an EV only culture as it stands.
Fed Gasoline taxes support Road infrastructure funding. At some point We will be paying taxes on the electricity used to charge EV's.
So charging will end up costing way more. You watch.
Many in dense urban city areas don't have the luxury of a driveway/ garage, with a charging station. Too much with EV's that has not been sorted out. Problems that EV makers won't speak freely about.
Parking on public streets, sometimes several blocks away, is the norm for many drivers. No one talks about this. Not practical for so many people and demographics. Basically excluding a good proportion of the population.

Edited.

 

[Doom!]

I believe in the idea, just not the execution. I don't see EV's as being practical for a long time. This discussion has been interesting though.

10 years ago when we looked and the dealer flat out told us we shouldn't get one with the low amount of mileage we put on our vehicles it just wouldn't make sense for us. We tend to keep our vehicles around 10 years before it starts getting cost prohibitive to keep them up.

I imagine once the battery life is nearing it's end, it would be a bugger to get rid of an EV. I'm sure there will be some sort of waste disposal recyling fee added in the future. Here in California they come up with a fee for anything they can think of. I would hate to have to pay to get rid of my car rather than sell a used ICE vehicle and still make a little money. I could be completely wrong.

 

[LicketySplit]

View attachment 211155

I drive a tanker. I’ve been delivering a couple thousand gallons of diesel every week to a local municipality to run the generators that charge their electric buses. I sh*T you not.

 

[Jerry-rigged]

I imagine once the battery life is nearing it's end, it would be a bugger to get rid of an EV

While I would not put it past the government to try and make money off a "disposal fee", there is currently a HUGE market for what is called second life batteries... Batteries from EVs are considered 'old' when they drop to 80% capacity, but they are still very useful in hundreds other use cases where it makes sense to trade volume/weight/performance for cost. Need a week of power for your home? An old EV battery will run your home AC for a week in the summertime. Local wind/solar farm needs to store energy for overnight usage? Those old EBus batteries will work great for grid storage, both for Peak demand and night time coverage. Lithium batteries don't die in the same way that lead-acid or Nickle batteries die, they mostly just slowly lose capacity and increase resistance. When they do die for real (very high IR or internal shorts) they can be recycled into new batteries.

Lithium batteries have come a long way in just the last dozen years. Increasing recycling and getting rid of the cobalt has removed a lot of the problems of "toxic old batteries in the landfill". With the newer LifePO4 cells, they can have almost a 100% recyclability, and almost zero risk of fire, all while still having very good energy density and good (true) amp output.

I imagine once the battery life is nearing it's end, it would be a bugger to get rid of an EV.

Also, don't forget that ICE motors die too. Ever try to sell a car with a blown motor? I have, was lucky I didn't have to pay to get rid of it. Have one in the driveway right now with a rear man leak, and a Tranny that will probably fail soon. But with the lack of new dealer stock, and silly pricing for used trucks, I will drive it till it blows up.

 

[SrC]

I believe in the idea, just not the execution. I don't see EV's as being practical for a long time. This discussion has been interesting though.

10 years ago when we looked and the dealer flat out told us we shouldn't get one with the low amount of mileage we put on our vehicles it just wouldn't make sense for us. We tend to keep our vehicles around 10 years before it starts getting cost prohibitive to keep them up.

I imagine once the battery life is nearing it's end, it would be a bugger to get rid of an EV. I'm sure there will be some sort of waste disposal recyling fee added in the future. Here in California they come up with a fee for anything they can think of. I would hate to have to pay to get rid of my car rather than sell a used ICE vehicle and still make a little money. I could be completely wrong.

In Japan, when you buy a new car, after the 3rd year, you pay a Tax. This tax increases every year exponentially. Financially forced to buy another new car.. Japan does this to control the Auto Industry. That's why in Japan all you see are late model cars.
They force you to sell your car after a few years. The used car market is smaller than the US per capita. The JP Gov't forces their drivers to buy another. Then a good percentage of used cars are parts broken and sold overseas everywhere else. Used 3-5 year old OE transmissions and motors are their bread winners. Japan cars have low miles on them.

 

[Doom!]

@SrC Sounds like a good reason not to live in Japan. Well that and Godzilla.

 

[L3phturn]

I like Tesla's approach - which isn't to force you to drive a shittier car but to just make cars so awesome that people choose them over ICE cars. To build out manufacturing and scale production successfully they needed to start with the higher priced performance and luxury cars but they are working to go down market as they scale battery and car production. This year will be one of scaling massively with new products like the Cybertruck starting production next year.

Tesla will buy every "used" EV battery they can get, not just Tesla batteries. They are essentially high grade ore and it is both cheaper and better for the planet for them to recycle batteries than it is to buy the materials needed to make them. This will take a few years to scale up I'm sure, they aren't ramping that yet because there isn't enough supply of used EV batteries for it to make sense at scale.

Finally, Elon's vision and Tesla's mission is to get to a sustainable energy future. If you believe this isn't the best way to do it that's fine, but Elon keeps doing things that everyone else thinks is impossible. I think all of the evidence points to him being right.

 

[LicketySplit]

In Japan, when you buy a new car, after the 3rd year, you pay a Tax. This tax increases every year exponentially. Financially forced to buy another new car.. Japan does this to control the Auto Industry. That's why in Japan all you see are late model cars.
They force you to sell your car after a few years. The used car market is smaller than the US per capita. The JP Gov't forces their drivers to buy another. Then a good percentage of used cars are parts broken and sold overseas everywhere else. Used 3-5 year old OE transmissions and motors are their bread winners. Japan cars have low miles on them.

Yup. I’ve bought quite a bit of stuff on the JDM before kids. I was dropping JDM motors into EG hatch backs before the whole, “The Fast and the Furious”. Now post kids, it’s easier to spend money on RC.

 

[Warby]

Haven't got it yet but its ordered. Its just to drive to work. It will be a lot more efficient than my old diesel landcruiser.

 

[L3phturn]

+1
A one driver small commuter car as a second car in the household can make perfect sense if is a sub $30k EV.
Not if it is a $60k+ Tesla or similar. There isn't much ROI. Quite the opposite.
Taking trips over 700+ miles doesn't make sense with EV's. Takes much longer to travel. And you are stuck wasting precious travel time at a Supercharger Station with few amenities. Better with a Hybrid for traveling. A plane or bus would even be cheaper for traveling. Just need to rent a car at your destination.
Yet Hybrids get best Fuel economy only when in stop and go traffic. Not when on the highways. At HWY cruising speeds the engine is also always ON along with the EV motor. Hence why Hybrids are less efficient. Best hybrid advertised economy is with local driving/commutes.

Tesla only represents 3% of total cars on the road here in the states.
Need to have road side charging insurance in case you get stuck.
I've seen Tesla's stuck on the side of the road with emergency roadside service trucks charging them. It's a thing.
Being stuck on the side of a highway is a great safety liability if you ask me.
Also where I live, household electricity to charge an EV does not come cheap. Electricity is not free. And electricity pollutes also.
The whole Green concept here is a hoax if you ask me.

Here in the States no one is addressing the poor state of the electrical Grid that exists right now.
This infrastructure has been neglected. It would never support an EV only culture as it stands.
Fed Gasoline taxes support Road infrastructure funding. At some point We will be paying taxes on the electricity used to charge EV's.
So charging will end up costing way more. You watch.
Many in dense urban city areas don't have the luxury of a driveway/ garage, with a charging station. Too much with EV's that has not been sorted out. Problems that EV makers won't speak freely about.
Parking on public streets, sometimes several blocks away, is the norm for many drivers. No one talks about this. Not practical for so many people and demographics. Basically excluding a good proportion of the population.

Edited.

Couple of points here based on owning a Tesla.

1. I have 3 kids and it’s my only vehicle. That makes it more valuable to me, not less. My “ROI” calculation values the safety of my kids as my top priority. This is the safest car I can buy in every aspect. The average miles between accidents is 2-4X better than anything I compared it to. The crash tests and safety track record when it is in a crash are the best by far. That is super valuable to me.

2. My experience with long trips with a Tesla doesn’t match your theory. The supercharger network is vast, even in Canada. I have the cheapest, shortest range model and I can get 80% charge in 20 minutes or less. I drive from Ottawa to Nova Scotia once or twice a year. 5 years ago I noticed that all of the places I stopped with my Honda Odyssey had Superchargers already. I can leave any time, even un-planned with no notice, and go almost anywhere without thinking about it. I press the steering wheel scroll button and say “Navigate to Sutherlands Lake, Nova Scotia” and the car plans the route and the Supercharging stops optimized for earliest arrival. Supercharging stops every 3-4 hours are at places with food and other amenities. Could you do the trip faster in an Ice car? Probably. In my experience there is no difference in arrival time. Especially with kids, but even with just my lady and I we stop long enough and frequently enough that charging isn’t an issue. Plus it’s much less tiring because the car mostly drives itself on the highway, and I did not buy the full self driving option. It’s also so much quieter at highway speed it’s shocking and that makes a big difference to me in terms of fatigue. Teslas have built-in roadside assistance but I don’t know anyone who has had to use it due to running out of power. That just isn’t an issue. Even in a situation like a blizzard and accident that shuts a road down for 24 hours, I am better off in an EV than a gas car. Just running the heat an seat heaters my battery will out last an equivalent ICE car’s fuel tank. And I am more likely to have more “fuel” than I would in a gas car because I charge my car at home overnight. Bonus - I don't risk death by carbon monoxide poisoning.

3. Tesla delivered 310,000 cars in Q1 22. 950,000 in 2021. Gigafactories in Austin and Berlin just started producing cars. By the end of 2022 I expect they will produce and deliver 500k plus in Q4. That 3% is going up and fast. Over 80% of the EVs on the road in the US are Teslas, but that is changing as Ford, Chevy, Nissan, Hyundai, VW group, BMW, Polestar, Lucid, Rivian and more ramp up production.

4. Charging at home is ridiculously cheap compared to gas. I set my car only to charge off-peak so it is both far less costly and does not add load to the grid when it is stressed. Everyone I know with a Tesla does this automatically, although a tap of my Tesla app changes that from anywhere if I choose. Charging at home is less than 10% of the cost oh gas. Power here is all Hydro except during peak times, but I don’t normally charge during peak times. This costs me less to run than my drier. Oh and I didn’t put in a charger. I plugged it into regular 110v until recently but 220v is more efficient and faster so R spent $900 Canadian to have a dedicated 220v, 40 amp circuit put in. Just a standard NEMA 14-50 outlet. I can fully charge in 5-6 hours. Even at my net 20% charge I schedule charging to start at 2:30 am. The car charges and preconditions the battery and climate for my regular departure time.

4. Agreed that charging costs will likely increase, but then again the same is true for the price of gas. Electricity is so much cheaper it has a long long way to go to get as expensive as gas. Things like gas taxes won’t matter until there are many more EVs on the road. Dense urban areas are an issue with any car, and parking is very costly in most cases. I don’t need to charge every day, but there are plenty of free or cheap options to charge, many with free parking. Many employers are installing free charging stations. Grocery stores, shopping centers, and many other places offer free or cheap charging, often with free parking.

My experience with my Tesla is that the fears and concerns are not reality. There is a whole lot of FUD out there, especially in the media, but the reality is a far better experience than I ever imagined.

 

[#ARRMArcfanboy4life]

The supercharger network is vast

I have never seen a supercharger irl that I am aware of.

 

[L3phturn]

I have never seen a supercharger irl that I am aware of.

Not sure where you live, and maybe you haven’t been looking, but two of the last places to get covered in Canada were the drive across Manitoba and the drive across New Brunswick. Those are both huge areas full of rocks, trees, water, and black flies, with very sparse population. They put stations on major highways for the most part, less so in city centres. Supercharging is designed for long trips, not everyday charging. It’s far more expensive than home charging so it’s not something I do unless I need to during a long trip or if I suddenly have to drive long distance unexpectedly. I can get to a supercharger from home or anywhere in Ottawa with less than 10% charge, and I am never that low. I don’t charge every day so I am usually between 30% and 70%. I only charge fully just before a long trip. I don’t need to, but topping up to 100 before a long drive gives me plenty of flexibility. It is also really awesome never to have to stop for gas. When I get in my car at home it always has enough “fuel” so I just don’t even think about it. I was concerned about range anxiety before I bought it, but with a couple weeks that was gone and now I appreciate never having to fill up for day to day driving.

Ottawa is a city of 1.2 million and we have two in the city and three more 20-30 minutes drive on the three main highways we use to go anywher. In addition to Superchargers there are a few PetroCanada gas stations with DC fast chargers that can charge my car fully in an hour, and Quebec (just across the river, part of the cit) has many many DC fast chargers.

Plugshare has a map that shows Superchargers As well as other chargers. Here is the Spercharger map. https://www.plugshare.com/map/supercharger

Tesla has built more than 31,000 SuperCharger Stalls globally with over 1,200 stations in the US (more every week) with the number of stalls per station varying from 8 (smallest I’ve seen anyway) to 50 in busy areas. In addition to automatically planning Supercharger stops, the cars precondition the battery for faster charging as you approach the station, using more energy to heat the battery for maximum charging speed and the fastest net time to your destination.

PS: One thing I hadn’t expected is that I no longer carry a set of keys with me. I have a smart door lock and my Tesla key is my phone. There is a backup key card in my wallet in case I lose my phone or it dies. My gf has my second keycard just in case. It’s a little thing, but it’s awesome not carrying keys any,ore.

 

[SARRT8]

When government is pushing so hard for these EV you know it's all a lie and somewhere politicians and their friends and family will be cashing in. Just like the snake oil flip flop Fauci and the rest of them have been pushing. I'll stick with my V8s.

 

[Warby]

I don't care about the politics side of it. If it costs me less to get from A to B then its a win for me.

 

[JPWSRC]

This is 1 of 3 Prius's I've owned in the last 10 years. 1st one cost me 3k and was totalled after putting 220k on the odometer. It had a warranty replacement on the drive battery at 90k before I bought it and went another 130k and was set to keep on going until the accident. My 2nd was the follow up Gen2, ( I bought used for 7500.00) it was 2009 that my son still owns today with 179k on the odometer ( still getting 45mpg on the highway and still on its original drive battery). Just because the engine is running, doesn't mean it's working hard BTW. There's so many fallacies in this thread...
This one here was a 2016 model that I traded in a 2015 SRT8 Challenger in for. Not because gas was expensive, but because I grew out of the need to pay 50k+ for a vehicle that just sits most of the time. My job changed and although I liked only having to fill up once a month I got bored of it and traded it in for some euro/Fordtrash torque vectoring AWD POS that got half the fuel economy but made me feel like a Hooligan and was a beast on the track. It got totalled out by some beotch in a 45 mph rear end collision that Fubar'd my back.

Frankly every vehicle has a niche, the Prius was the right tool for the job at the time, and was more than comfortable enough for a family of 4 normal sized humans. If your so caught up in political diatribe or BS stereotypes not to recognize the value of EVs and hybrids then I feel sorry for you.
I have fun, but also recognize we have an impact on everything we do. I do what I can, albeit for sometimes selfish reasons because I'm not harming anyone. Rolling coal is for D'bags who are self absorbed. I have my share of pigs, they don't roll chit.

 

[Clubin]

Hard sell here where I live. Temperatures in the winter make it not possible.
Electric vehicles is not a long term plan anyway, there isn’t enough lithium to make it practical. Electric vehicles are a dead end road.

Hydrogen is what is coming.
Elon musk said all his cars will be hydrogen by 2024.
https://www.whichev.net/2022/04/01/elon-musk-announces-tesla-will-switch-to-hydrogen-in-2024/