Talion Talion EXB Ultra Track Basher

[21STalion]

M2C 3080 shock tower stand off kit upgrade

Review: The shocks hold up the weight of the vehicle and these stand offs are how the shocks attach to the shock towers. A lot of stress comes through these stand offs. These are thicker than the EXB standoffs and made from hardened steel, would be very surprised if these break.

Fitment: Perfect. However, you need to drill the shock tower mounting holes for the larger stand-offs. So if you aren't happy drilling your brand new shiny parts these are not for you.

I like the upgrade, but don't think it's necessary unless you break your stock standoffs.

Part Weights:
EXB shock standoff: 6.2 gr
M2C shock standoff: 7.8 gr

Additional weight: 6.4 gr

Comparison:

EXB standoff

M2C Standoff

Body Reinforcement Basher Mod

This actually added a surprising amount of weight and is probably not worth it. Even for a basher. Bodies aren't cheap, but this isn't cheap either, and I don't think I will go as extreme next time. Next time I will just put some foam for the shock towers and maybe just some tape around the perimeter.

Current weight: 248 gr

Do me a favor and weight a stock talion body and let me know the weight!

 

[21STalion]

Pro-Line 1178-10 Badlands 3.8" All Terrain Tires mounted on Raid Black 8x32 Removable Hex Wheels for 17mm MT Front or Rear (M2 Compound)

Review: Wow, now these are some tires. The grip is phenomenal! The sticky knobby tires just grab whatever it can find and flings it in every direction. They are close in size but taller than the belted Katars and quite a bit wider.

Fitment: Good, not great. The 1/2" offset removeable hex mounts makes the wheels sit wider. This is desirable on the rear end but I feel it's messing with the front geometry and I rather it go back to zero offset on the front. I've ordered the Pro-Line aluminum zero offset and 1/2" offset hex adapters that will return the front wheels to zero and allow the rears to remain pushed out.

Highly Recommended Upgrade - Racers probably want to use Hole shots. Top tier upgrade!

	1 x PRO6353-00	Pro-Line 8x32 to 17mm 1/2" Offset Aluminum Hex Adapters
	1 x PRO6356-00	Pro-Line 8x32 to 17mm Zero Offset Aluminum Hex Adapters (2)

Also purchased (and waiting for shipping) the M2C racing +5MM hex adaptor for use on the rear to push the rear track even further out. Oddly it says not for use with metal hub wheels, but luckily I will have an abundance of plastic pro-line hex hubs to abuse shortly.

m2c 3499 17MM +5MM UNIVERSAL HEX ADAPTOR FOR 8M AXLES

This Talion is going to be a nasty surprise on that track....the rear of the car will probably be too wide to be legal in any formal racing. Oh well, I can spank people informally then.

Part Weights:
EXB Belted Katars: 1056gr set of 4
Pro-Line Badlands: 1035gr set of 4

Pro Tip: I replaced all the black steel button head screws with stainless cap head screws on the Pro-Line 8x32 adaptors and saved an additional 1.5 gr per wheel (score!). Plus they look better and won't rust. I used the extra screws I had from the stainless screw set.

Weigh savings 27 gr - not really 'track tires' but these will go anywhere - holy smokes the grip. This is rotational weight, I've always considered rotational weight to be about 3x as bad as static sprung weight so I consider this to be almost an 81 gr performance improvement. Well done Pro-Line!


EXB Belted Katars

Pro-line Badlands:

Width comparison:

Pro-Line Button Heads vs Stainless Cap Heads (saves 6 gr!)

 

[21STalion]

Hobbywing is having a sale for $205 for that combo https://www.hobbywingdirect.com/products/max6-combos?variant=18438418104435
I have heard that the max6 is the best esc for a basher and the 4985 is a huge motor with a lot of power.
I personally run the blx185 (similar to a max8) and the 4092. This combo is on the lighter side of things but still has a huge amount of power. I am planning on putting a max6 or max8 in the talion when my blx185 breaks.

Well I really like the Max6 but the 4985 is anchor at 587g.

What about using something like this with a Max6
https://www.amainhobbies.com/tekin-...ess-motor-2000kv-tektt2346/p-qtazqzyqpbzxactz

Weight is really important to me.

What would be your dream combo if weight was super important to you?

 

[#ARRMArcfanboy4life]

Well I really like the Max6 but the 4985 is anchor at 587g.

What about using something like this with a Max6
https://www.amainhobbies.com/tekin-...ess-motor-2000kv-tektt2346/p-qtazqzyqpbzxactz

Weight is really important to me.

What would be your dream combo is weight was super important to you?

The motor you found is slightly bigger than stock but idk about it. I would probably use a max8 + 4092 if weight was important for my talion.

 

[21STalion]

The motor you found is slightly bigger than stock but idk about it. I would probably use a max8 + 4092 if weight was important for my talion.

To be honest this is why I went RTR. The motor and ECS combo is fine and has plenty of power and features. I'm in no rush for the motor/esc upgrade unless I can actually nail down what I should be getting - because the more I read about motors and ESCs the more I realize I have no idea what I should be using.

Also, I am not 100% certain, but I believe there is a 4s limit if you are doing any formal racing in my area. So that's another ball of wax.

I really like the castle 1717, or that max 6 combo but I have a feeling adding that much weight will start hurting more than helping. Even the 1515 is much heavier than what I have now.

The motor and ECS is that hardest part.... I am open to suggestions.

This thing stock is already balls to the walls faster than any of my nitro rigs lol

 

[highrisedrifter]

Also, I am not 100% certain, but I believe there is a 4s limit if you are doing any formal racing in my area. So that's another ball of wax - I may need to be building a 4s setup if this thing starts getting too competitive.

It's 4s here in SoCal at all the local tracks, so the chances are it's also 4s where you are too, especially if they use the ROAR rules.

 

[JCsRC]

Where did you get that tool bag? That would be perfect for my son. He doesn’t know it yet but Santa has a Talion EXB ready for him.

For that servo consider ProModeler DS635BLHV or DS630BLHV. I have the 635 coming for my LMT but after doing my research and talking to the owner I feel like this might be one of the best servos for the money on the market. They have even better ones and they sell a BEC bypass harness too.

https://www.promodeler.com/DS635BLHV
https://www.promodeler.com/DS630BLHV

 

[21STalion]

For that servo consider ProModeler DS635BLHV or DS630BLHV. I have the 635 coming for my LMT but after doing my research and talking to the owner I feel like this might be one of the best servos for the money on the market. They have even better ones and they sell a BEC bypass harness too.

https://www.promodeler.com/DS635BLHV
https://www.promodeler.com/DS630BLHV

Wow, now that is some servo options. Thanks JCsRC!

HOWEVER the DS635BLHV looks like it might draw too many amps for my ESC....and they don't appear to be waterproof...

The DS630BLHV looks promising with my current electronics

Ugh, they are both even heavier...

Okay, this is on the list of possible end game servos, first I need to look up some BEC options and then we will look at a servo...I imagine my current one won't be lasting long as we have a long rainy season ahead of us and this thing is getting wet a couple times a week. I also use a hose and a leaf blower to clean it after runs, my poor RC. I do clean out the bearings often.


"Where did you get that tool bag? That would be perfect for my son. He doesn’t know it yet but Santa has a Talion EXB ready for him."

Umm... a Talion EXB from Santa? Are you taking applications for new sons? If so I'd like to apply.

It's a ProTek RC "TruTorque" Team Tool Bag

https://www.amainhobbies.com/protek-rc-trutorque-team-tool-bag-ptk-8102/p-quqeqqwqyczxactz

Good combination of stretchy loops and rigid loops. It's a nice kit.

It goes great with my aluminum briefcase I converted for RC use. My son asks me all the time where I got it from and if it was part of the RC, I told him I just put the stickers on there for fun!

I just removed the lock so it could vent if the batteries ever blew up. It would probably be water tight otherwise.

 

[21STalion]

It's 4s here in SoCal at all the local tracks, so the chances are it's also 4s where you are too, especially if they use the ROAR rules.

Yeah, I've been running 6S at the track but I haven't done any formal races, it's the off season anyway.

This ROAR legal battery is 485 gr at 4s and looks like it fits. That's a sweet 320 gr savings over my current batteries.

https://www.canadahobbies.ca/produc...4s-5000mah-148v-lipo-hardcase-roar-battery-w/

 

[JCsRC]

@21STalion
Thank you for the links. The servo does require more amperage than many ESC’s and their BEC’s can muster but then again I’ve learned that a BEC (battery eliminator circuit) is a cheap switching device meant to reduce the batteries voltage for the servos to work but the voltage they produce is not a clean DC current. I’m going to try their BEC bypass harness that taps directly off the battery so there will be no limited amperage or voltage from a BEC and it will be 7.4 volts, not a weak 6 volts. The item I purchased is the BEC-bypass-JST-XH2 - HV2SV-J and I also got it from the same guy listed here. https://www.promodeler.com/extensions The direct link is here, https://www.promodeler.com/HV2SV-J He also sells separate small 7.4 volt battery packs to run your servos but I know you’re concerned about weight.

Here is some more good articles for you to read.

https://www.promodeler.com/askJohn/The-case-against-synthetic-voltage
https://www.promodeler.com/askJohn/BEC-or-dedicated-pack
https://www.promodeler.com/askJohn/talkRADIO/about-RC-servo-motors
https://www.promodeler.com/askJohn/Bypassing-the-BEC
https://www.promodeler.com/askJohn/about-pots-vs-Hall-Effect-sensors

Enjoy, there is a lot of good information here.

 

[JCsRC]

Also, if you want to save weight and run a very powerful battery then get this. I have 4 of these batteries in 3S version and let me tell you these are the best batteries I’ve run to date. True Spec Extreme Graphene V2 https://www.smc-racing.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=189

I picked these up at my local hobby shop.

 

[21STalion]

Also, if you want to save weight and run a very powerful battery then get this. I have 4 of these batteries in 3S version and let me tell you these are the best batteries I’ve run to date. True Spec Extreme Graphene V2 https://www.smc-racing.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=189

I picked these up at my local hobby shop.

442 gr for a 4S 5200mAh that's pretty good.

I wish my LHS had more stuff, but they are really light on car based RC stuff, they are more into drones.

@21STalion
Thank you for the links. The servo does require more amperage than many ESC’s and their BEC’s can muster but then again I’ve learned that a BEC (battery eliminator circuit) is a cheap switching device meant to reduce the batteries voltage for the servos to work but the voltage they produce is not a clean DC current. I’m going to try their BEC bypass harness that taps directly off the battery so there will be no limited amperage or voltage from a BEC and it will be 7.4 volts, not a weak 6 volts. The item I purchased is the BEC-bypass-JST-XH2 - HV2SV-J and I also got it from the same guy listed here. https://www.promodeler.com/extensions The direct link is here, https://www.promodeler.com/HV2SV-J He also sells separate small 7.4 volt battery packs to run your servos but I know you’re concerned about weight.

Here is some more good articles for you to read.

https://www.promodeler.com/askJohn/The-case-against-synthetic-voltage
https://www.promodeler.com/askJohn/BEC-or-dedicated-pack
https://www.promodeler.com/askJohn/talkRADIO/about-RC-servo-motors
https://www.promodeler.com/askJohn/Bypassing-the-BEC
https://www.promodeler.com/askJohn/about-pots-vs-Hall-Effect-sensors

Enjoy, there is a lot of good information here.

Thanks for the links, will look into this.

I'm lucky that my RTR electronics support 7.4V already, which is amazing, so I'm actually looking for a 8.4v+ option for a BEC or its not worth the switch in my case.

 

[21STalion]

UPDATE M2C 3035 rear shock tower brace INSTALLED!

Fitment: Poor. It does work and it will add strength. It's not the kind of upgrade that you do on an R/C you spent a lot of money on. Hope M2C or someone else comes out with a more compatible design.

M2C did say this part fits with modification to parts and body - this is true, but it is worth it?

Issued encountered:

1. M2C part was too tall, and was very proud of the Talion shock towers. The three holes that come on the part don't even come close to the tower. The M2C part had to be cut, ground down, and new holes drilled.
2. Holes had to be drilled on the shock towers as well (both the M2C and EXB - no matter). This part was expected and mentioned on the website.
3. Tower to Tower Brace and mounting is tricky, not ideal, but does fit. My case was unique, but I sliced off the nub on the T2T brace diff bulkhead mount and cut down the screw that fastens it in order to clear the M2C brace.
4. The wing mount arm is proud and has to be shaved down to clear the lower arm edge of the M2C part. In hindsight I would have rather shaved the bottom of the M2C mount instead of the plastic wing mount arm, because
   1. Compromised the strength of the wing mount arm
   2. Will have to modify the wing mount again to fit the M2C equipped car should a replacement ever been needed. If I had cut the M2C part then it would be once and done.
   3. After cutting this much material off the M2C part, with aspirations for more, with engagement so tiny, how much strength are we adding? We no longer have that big flat flange adding stability like on the Kraton. It's a tiny little flat now with a bevel on the bottom making it engage even less.
5. Two nubs have to be trimmed into the body to clear the M2C brace
6. The the mounting holes that go through the rear of the shock towers. The rear are not flat on the M2C rear shock towers (They are on the EXB), and the nylock nut does not sit flat flush on the part. So these would technically be more compatible with the EXB towers then the M2C towers....strange.

I can't "recommend" this update for the Talion EXB w/M2C Shock Towers because of the work involved and how the rear nuts don't fit well. Maybe there is a better way to install it. The EXB shock towers will fix this but those towers are very flimsy compared to the M2C.


Part Weights:
Don't have exact weights for this one, because too many things were changed. Parts and screws were trimmed. Hardware was added and removed. You will trim it differently and use different hardware. In total I estimate this to be about a 16 gr increase overall.


Part installed detail:

What needed to be trimmed:

T2T brace Nylock interference. Stock you don't have a nut here, it's just a plastic nub. Mine stripped.

Mickey mouse rear Nylock Nuts:

M2C brace after it's been trimmed:

M2C Tower Brace Weight Comparison

 

[21STalion]

max6+4985 combo is what you need.
You also should to make this your build thread.

Okay, well you know what's nice about 8S? It's twice that of 4S.

https://www.castlecreations.com/en/mamba-monster-x-8s-33-6v-esc-w-1717-1650kv-010-0165-02

Should be here early December.

 

[FlipSide]

Very nice build.

Do you plan on keeping the T2T brace? I personnally think it is overkill with the M2C chassis, chassis brace and shock tower brace. I removed it on my Kraton. I like not having to deal with it when I have to wrench on the RC.

 

[21STalion]

Very nice build.

Do you plan on keeping the T2T brace? I personnally think it is overkill with the M2C chassis, chassis brace and shock tower brace. I removed it on my Kraton. I like not having to deal with it when I have to wrench on the RC.

Thank you!

I am undecided about the t2t. Oddly, when installing the parts I found the bolt that attached the m2c chassis brace to the rear diff housing/shock tower was bent. There is a lot of pressure going through there. The wing mount screws were also bent. Was not running the T2T at the time.

I'm leaning towards removing it but it's staying on for now.

Anyone else have any input?

 

[21STalion]

RPM RPM81412 Mud Guards Upgrade

Okay, officially RPM doesn't say these fit but I know I need mud guards for the rear because of the crazy amount this thing can kick back. I made these work because I could get them quickly.

Review: Really protects the rear suspension and fancy dogbones from rocks and debris. Save yourself some headache and install this or another solution to protect your rear arms. Would be nice if the upper shock were protected more.

Fitment: Requires trimming of one of the corners and a hole has to be created for a screw on the rear arm. One hole will already be there to guide you, and you just need to make another hole and self tap the screw in into the soft plastic. Don't be fooled by the trimming of the corner. RPM will laugh at your puny kitchen scissors. You will need 2 screws, you can see which I used in the pictures. If the screw is too long it pokes out the back of the arm - so make sure your screws look like mine.

If you managed to fit the elusive RPM rear arm then the holes will already be there for you but you get fitment issues elsewhere - such as droop screw alignment and sway bar link out of position.

Highly Recommended Upgrade - If you can find a ready to install one even better

Part Weights: 10 gr per side including hardware and how I trimmed it. I trimmed a bit too much, you might be able to get it closer.

Total weight increase 20 gr

 

[21STalion]

RC Screwz RCZARRM009 Talion BLX Stainless Steel Screw set (buy 2 if you want all the screws and spares)

Arrma says the R/C is waterproof. I asked the guy at the LHS how to clean it. Back in the day I used to use a nitro spray to clean the car after running. He said they don't stock that and just wash it with a hose, it's waterproof! Okay, so the first time I take it out and hose it off, some water pools around the nuts and screws. Within hours little bits of rust are forming. Obviously this doesn't please me and I immediately order the screws. I also clean my car differently now, and blow it down, wash it, blow it down, WD40 all the water away, then blow it down again. I use a stupid strong leaf blower that I use only to dry my cars/bikes with. I try the bearings on every part I work on and if it ever doesn't roll smooth I just clean 'em. They do get fouled up often running all weather/all terrain.

Almost every part in that big screw box came off this new Talion EXB RTR, its a surprising amount of hardware involved here.

Review: These screws don't seem to rust but they aren't particular strong. They seem to be lighter, I saved weight a few times by switching to them, especially on the Pro-Line 8x32 hub centers. Wish I had a titanium option, but there is a huge amount of screws here. Glad I have spares because I have bent several of these already. They don't seem to strip when using MIP tools. I rather deal with a few screw replacements than rust.

Fitment: Good, except I needed two sets to get close to 99% of the black screws replaced. Still looking for a few...

Recommended if you don't like rust like me, but I would still like to find some Ti ones maybe.

Weight savings overall, but not much.

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Arrma Talion 1/8 EXB Sealed Bearing Kit​

PART #TFE7233

Review: I kept reading about people complaining about the bearings, I bought this set but they seem to be identical to the stuff that came on the car. Happy I have them because I have the originals as spares, and the steering link was using bushings. So this actually was a solid upgrade for the steering alone. Dirt seems to get past the seals they way I wash my car, oh well, bearings are cheap, just have extras and clean the ones you have often.

Recommend you find better bearings if you care about that a lot, these are middle of the road. They roll really nice but are nothing spectacular. The price is very low.

This is all the old crusty stuff I pulled out of the truggy. Probably had 5 batteries on them.

 

[21STalion]

M2C 3055 pillar ball retainer nut kit
& M2C 3327 pillow ball insertion wrench

Review: Some mixed feelings on this one. The Delrin cup bushing the M2C kit comes with is hands down better than the random plastic that the EXB came with, but the actual M2C nuts themselves didn't seem much better than the EXB - except that the quality of the aluminum was superior. The EXB pieces have an o-ring that helps stop the hex from backing out, the M2C ones don't. The insertion tool is amazing.

Fitment: Prefect replacement. The tool makes servicing the pillow balls easy.

Recommended upgrade for the Delrin alone. Tool is an auto buy if you have this car - shame it costs so much. Other companies have other options I would like to see as well.

Part Weights:
EXB hex set: 9.5 gr
M2C hex set: 9.8 gr

Weight increase 0.3 gr

Installed m2c pillow ball hex:

Part comparison:

Pillow ball tool install:

 

[21STalion]

HR HRAAON10M01 Aluminum 17MM friction dirt shield wheel nuts

Review: I got these because the first day I took her out mud caked up on the exposed grub screws in the center of the hubs. These provide a dust shield and your grub screw stays clean and less likely to strip. The lug nuts also have an o-ring inside them that helps stop it from slipping. You will quickly lose those after pinching them.

Fitment: Perfect. Butter smooth nut tightening action until you twist the o-ring. Does what it says on the tin.

Highly Recommended - should come with spare o-rings

Part Weights:
V4 lug nuts: 8 gr
EXB lug nuts: 7.5 gr
HR lug nuts: 8.1 gr

Weight increase 0.5 gr

Part comparison:

V4 lug nut:

HR lug nut:

Weights:

Part Detail:

EXB Lug nut:

HR Lug nut