Limitless Is Anyone Else Running a Perfect Pass Launch Control Module With a Futaba Tx/Rx (preferably 7PXR but 4PV, 4PX, 4PM or 10PX would also work)?

[Diem Turner]

As the title suggests, I'm looking for anyone else using PP with Futaba electronics and, if so, if you could please PM me as I had something I want to discuss but, at least for the time being, keep it offline. Sorry for being a bit cryptic but, I have my reasons and will speak more freely about it in a future update. Thanks for your understanding and I hope to hear from one or two people.

 

[vwturbowolf]

I can’t offer any help on your topic because I use a 3pv with no perfect pass, but the 7px/r just released a 10.0 update that added speed to the throttle curve. So that’s something that people will probably use in place of a perfect pass

 

[Diem Turner]

I can’t offer any help on your topic because I use a 3pv with no perfect pass, but the 7px/r just released a 10.0 update that added speed to the throttle curve. So that’s something that people will probably use in place of a perfect pass
View attachment 279460

Whoa! I had put in a feature request with Futaba a few months back regarding increasing the throttle speed buffer size to something larger than three seconds and got into quite a testy back and forth with the support agent because he responded in the most retarded and asinine way possible. In the end we left off at he would forward it to HQ but I didn't believe him because at that point I had no reason to believe he was doing anything other than placating me. I'm not saying this feature has anything to do with me because I know I can't have been the first or even 50th person to ask for it (or maybe I was second....kinda hard saying). I'm gonna go grab it but just curious, do you know any of the technical details as to duration?

Thanks for the heads up. If this does in fact mimic PP then you'll have been quite a help with this info

Edit: The supporting documentation doesn't say anything about overall duration but it does look promising. Another update they added is:

• Fixed the telemetry display when using the external telemetry sensor Castle TL01.

Looking like a worthwhile update at first glance.

 

[Dan B.]

I love it when people are cryptic and clearly have something up their sleeve. My breath is abated.

 

[Diem Turner]

Ok, so their "update" to the throttle speed didn't actually increase the maximum delay achievable so, unfortunately, it doesn't really do all that much. I'll have to check out the telemetry later today to see what they've done there.

That being said, my interest in speaking to someone or others utilizing PP with Futaba still stands. So...come one, come all. Or just come one. I'd be more than happy with even just one reply. Baby steps.

 

[gotnitro]

Didn't even know an electronic driver existed. Some of you have been cheating this whole time?

My middle finger is professionally trained over the years in perfect push/pull and extension that it transferred ability and its power to my index.

 

[Diem Turner]

Coke bump.

 

[Dan B.]

Watching, hope someone can answer here…
Have you tried RCTalk? Might be a longshot, most speed runners seems to be on this site.

 

[Diem Turner]

Watching, hope someone can answer here…
Have you tried RCTalk? Might be a longshot, most speed runners seems to be on this site.

I have not. I figured if I don't find someone here that the chances are even slimmer elsewhere. I knew it was going to be slim pickins but I have to admit that I'm a bit surprised that there isn't even one person who runs a setup like the one Raz has been using for years. Pretty much everything else the man does is picked up and copied because if Raz is doing it, there's probably something beneficial there. Yes his builds are always really clean and look nice with everything tucked, tightened and only just as much wire and cables as is necessary to make a connection but generally everything on his cars is there for a reason, it has a purpose to make his car a better speed runner and a lot of what he says is treated as gospel. Maybe gospel is a little strong, but he certainly counts as one of few authority figures on the topic of speed running. But no one runs his radio setup. Not entirely surprising but a little odd nonetheless.

 

[Dan B.]

OK, and now the obvious just hit me! Raz quite obviously does. Have you asked him, or do you prefer not to let whatever species of cat that resides in your bag out just yet?

 

[Tirefryer426]

I'm working on it.
I have a 10px, Perfect Pass, R2006GS receiver. But I'm not up and running quite yet. So I can't answer anything now, but I might be able to here pretty soon.
I'm doing final electronics installation right now, and my batteries are en route. I should be powering up and bench testing soon.

 

[Diem Turner]

I'm working on it.
I have a 10px, Perfect Pass, R2006GS receiver. But I'm not up and running quite yet. So I can't answer anything now, but I might be able to here pretty soon.
I'm doing final electronics installation right now, and my batteries are en route. I should be powering up and bench testing soon.

Right on. It took me a little while, but I've been able to answer my own question. I'll be posting an update in here in the coming days so that others can benefit from my experience, I'm just procrastinating on the write-up because I'm in the middle of a rather extensive refresh of my Infraction GT for the 2023 season that includes fabercobbling of some custom parts and that's where all my free time is going at the moment.

 

[Diem Turner]

Ok, I've been putting some of my updates off for long enough. The time has come to stop procrastinating and just get on with it, so here we are. I'm going to do my best to keep this write-up to a reasonable length and try to keep digressions to a minimum and keep it focused on the actual meat of the substance yet still illustrate a few of the key findings and how I got there, but...let's be realistic. Anyone who has known me for longer than a week or two and, God forbid, engaged in extended volley/return, parry/dodge/check-hook exchanges can probably attest to a general inability to keep it terse and that brevity is not exactly my strong suit...I might just be proving this shortcoming with each additional keystroke from here on out. For those with little time or no patience for my verbosity, skip ahead to the TL;DR for critical distillation of the what and how. Anyballs, without much further ado...

Update:

So let me begin by lifting the shroud on what prompted me to start this thread in the first place. I had ordered a PP launch control and it just sat around here for a couple of weeks/months (I have no sense for the passage of time anymore). After determining where in the chain of dingles, dangles, nobbles and bobbles I have connected to my receiver in the electronics box simply by trial and error (it's literally crammed like a can of sardines and I had already upsized my electronics box from the small Infraction V2 box to the V1 Limitless box) I set about following Raz's instructional video on installation/setup. The ESC would only allow me to calibrate with the PP module at one specific junction in my box of spaghetti. My radio gear consists of the following in this particular setup:

• Futaba 7PXR
• Futaba 334SBS
• Futaba SBS01TE Temp Sensor
• Castle Creations XLX2 ESC
• Castle Creations Futaba Telemetry Link
• Castle Creations Quick Connect Duo
• HRC 44kg Digital Servo

So with everything connected I calibrated the ESC with the PP module in place and that went off without a hitch. So after adjusting the delay potentiometer on the module and a restart I could gun it and the RPMs would ramp up. I'm thinking, "Job done. Let's button this thing up and give it a try in the real world".

As I'm readying the car I suddenly got the sense that something wasn't right and this is where we finally get into the actual problem. I fired it up again, ran through a ramp cycle of the throttle as I had before with the delay control turned up all the way and...boom. Feeling that something wasn't right: CONFIRMED. Yes, the module ramped up the throttle in a linear manner after I buried the trigger but...the ramp time from when I pull the trigger to max RPM is about 4 seconds and not the 8-9 seconds I was expecting.

Huh? Do what now? How? Why?

Anyone care to take a stab at what was going on here? If not, I'll just get back to it, but I'm genuinely curious if anyone has an idea of what was causing this or how you would have went about figuring this out. I did get it sorted eventually but finding it wasn't as straightforward as I would have hoped. Leave your answers down below in the doobeliedoo.

 

[gotnitro]

Ok, I've been putting some of my updates off for long enough. The time has come to stop procrastinating and just get on with it, so here we are. I'm going to do my best to keep this write-up to a reasonable length and try to keep digressions to a minimum and keep it focused on the actual meat of the substance yet still illustrate a few of the key findings and how I got there, but...let's be realistic. Anyone who has known me for longer than a week or two and, God forbid, engaged in extended volley/return, parry/dodge/check-hook exchanges can probably attest to a general inability to keep it terse and that brevity is not exactly my strong suit...I might just be proving this shortcoming with each additional keystroke from here on out. For those with little time or no patience for my verbosity, skip ahead to the TL;DR for critical distillation of the what and how. Anyballs, without much further ado...

Update:

So let me begin by lifting the shroud on what prompted me to start this thread in the first place. I had ordered a PP launch control and it just sat around here for a couple of weeks/months (I have no sense for the passage of time anymore). After determining where in the chain of dingles, dangles, nobbles and bobbles I have connected to my receiver in the electronics box simply by trial and error (it's literally crammed like a can of sardines and I had already upsized my electronics box from the small Infraction V2 box to the V1 Limitless box) I set about following Raz's instructional video on installation/setup. The ESC would only allow me to calibrate with the PP module at one specific junction in my box of spaghetti. My radio gear consists of the following in this particular setup:

• Futaba 7PXR
• Futaba 334SBS
• Futaba SBS01TE Temp Sensor
• Castle Creations XLX2 ESC
• Castle Creations Futaba Telemetry Link
• Castle Creations Quick Connect Duo
• HRC 44kg Digital Servo

So with everything connected I calibrated the ESC with the PP module in place and that went off without a hitch. So after adjusting the delay potentiometer on the module and a restart I could gun it and the RPMs would ramp up. I'm thinking, "Job done. Let's button this thing up and give it a try in the real world".

As I'm readying the car I suddenly got the sense that something wasn't right and this is where we finally get into the actual problem. I fired it up again, ran through a ramp cycle of the throttle as I had before with the delay control turned up all the way and...boom. Feeling that something wasn't right: CONFIRMED. Yes, the module ramped up the throttle in a linear manner after I buried the trigger but...the ramp time from when I pull the trigger to max RPM is about 4 seconds and not the 8-9 seconds I was expecting.

Huh? Do what now? How? Why?

Anyone care to take a stab at what was going on here? If not, I'll just get back to it, but I'm genuinely curious if anyone has an idea of what was causing this or how you would have went about figuring this out. I did get it sorted eventually but finding it wasn't as straightforward as I would have hoped. Leave your answers down below in the doobeliedoo.

Bad Vanhoozen-blozzen.

 

[Dan B.]

Ok, I've been putting some of my updates off for long enough. The time has come to stop procrastinating and just get on with it, so here we are. I'm going to do my best to keep this write-up to a reasonable length and try to keep digressions to a minimum and keep it focused on the actual meat of the substance yet still illustrate a few of the key findings and how I got there, but...let's be realistic. Anyone who has known me for longer than a week or two and, God forbid, engaged in extended volley/return, parry/dodge/check-hook exchanges can probably attest to a general inability to keep it terse and that brevity is not exactly my strong suit...I might just be proving this shortcoming with each additional keystroke from here on out. For those with little time or no patience for my verbosity, skip ahead to the TL;DR for critical distillation of the what and how. Anyballs, without much further ado...

Update:

So let me begin by lifting the shroud on what prompted me to start this thread in the first place. I had ordered a PP launch control and it just sat around here for a couple of weeks/months (I have no sense for the passage of time anymore). After determining where in the chain of dingles, dangles, nobbles and bobbles I have connected to my receiver in the electronics box simply by trial and error (it's literally crammed like a can of sardines and I had already upsized my electronics box from the small Infraction V2 box to the V1 Limitless box) I set about following Raz's instructional video on installation/setup. The ESC would only allow me to calibrate with the PP module at one specific junction in my box of spaghetti. My radio gear consists of the following in this particular setup:

• Futaba 7PXR
• Futaba 334SBS
• Futaba SBS01TE Temp Sensor
• Castle Creations XLX2 ESC
• Castle Creations Futaba Telemetry Link
• Castle Creations Quick Connect Duo
• HRC 44kg Digital Servo

So with everything connected I calibrated the ESC with the PP module in place and that went off without a hitch. So after adjusting the delay potentiometer on the module and a restart I could gun it and the RPMs would ramp up. I'm thinking, "Job done. Let's button this thing up and give it a try in the real world".

As I'm readying the car I suddenly got the sense that something wasn't right and this is where we finally get into the actual problem. I fired it up again, ran through a ramp cycle of the throttle as I had before with the delay control turned up all the way and...boom. Feeling that something wasn't right: CONFIRMED. Yes, the module ramped up the throttle in a linear manner after I buried the trigger but...the ramp time from when I pull the trigger to max RPM is about 4 seconds and not the 8-9 seconds I was expecting.

Huh? Do what now? How? Why?

Anyone care to take a stab at what was going on here? If not, I'll just get back to it, but I'm genuinely curious if anyone has an idea of what was causing this or how you would have went about figuring this out. I did get it sorted eventually but finding it wasn't as straightforward as I would have hoped. Leave your answers down below in the doobeliedoo.

I wish I had an answer for you here (or even a more specific and reasonable hypothesis) but this is a bit out of my wheelhouse. I would venture to say it’s the launch controller not playing well with one of the other components stuffed up in that receiver box. Or there’s always the possibility that you received a PP with a bad pot. happens.
That said, when I was looking at that list of things that are plugged into your receiver it gave me an entirely new appreciation for your skills in producing neat and tidy wiring schemes on your builds. If I had all of that I’d have to build an entire electronics room somewhere on the chassis. I’m loving @Tex Koder ’s receiver box extension, btw.

 

[Diem Turner]

Bad Vanhoozen-blozzen.

You're close. But I'm going to go full Alex "Jeopardy!" Trebek on you and require correct pronunciation or

I wish I had an answer for you here (or even a more specific and reasonable hypothesis) but this is a bit out of my wheelhouse. I would venture to say it’s the launch controller not playing well with one of the other components stuffed up in that receiver box. Or there’s always the possibility that you received a PP with a bad pot. happens.
That said, when I was looking at that list of things that are plugged into your receiver it gave me an entirely new appreciation for your skills in producing neat and tidy wiring schemes on your builds. If I had all of that I’d have to build an entire electronics room somewhere on the chassis. I’m loving @Tex Koder ’s receiver box extension, btw.

While part of me doesn't want to show you what's behind the curtain because being the Wizard of Oz makes me feel all warm and gooey inside, the larger part of me is compelled to show you what's behind the curtain because that's how we Germans do.

Rest assured when I tell you that I do not produce neat and tidy wiring...I just know how to hide it. You know that kid in grade school that had a neat room upon first inspection but a closer look reveals that one of the posts of his bed isn't actually touching the ground because all his is under there?

Yeah, neither do I but that's certainly one way of solving the parental unit room inspection dilemma. All similarities to persons living or dead is purely coincidental.

After having created so much extra real estate on my last rebuild/reconfiguration, I decided to make it a little easier on me by distributing my onboard electronics into two electronics boxes. I'm using both the V2 Infraction box that came with the car in addition to the V1 Limitless box that I had upscaled to at some point. The small box on the right contains the receiver and PP launch control module (I drilled a 2mm hole in the lid so that I could adjust PP without needing to open it every time) and the big box on the left contains the telemetry link, quick connect duo, 3-way S.BUS hub and GYC-441. One of the other small side projects I added during the overhaul was CF lids for both boxes.

Getting back to the the topic of the thread...

An entirely reasonable assumption. To rule out any component conflicts, keeping with standards in practice of fault localization, I proceeded to remove everything from the electronics except the bare minimum needed to operate. Then, once a functioning system can be established, begin adding back the other components one by one until the fault you were experiencing re-surfaces at which point you have the culprit and, depending on what component was causing the problem, take appropriate action to address the fault.

ln short order I made one or two setup changes in the ESC so it wouldn't complain that the telemetry link is missing and connected only the ESC, motor, receiver, PP launch control, plugged a small 2S lipo into the receiver for power, recalibrated the ESC on power up aaaaand....same problem. Roughly 4 seconds of ramp time. I confirmed in the data log what I was seeing and hearing. The data log looked fine and showed no anomalous behavior. The ramp was a nice diagonal and everything...just too short. It was about 3.7-3.8 seconds of ramp time but we'll just call it 4 seconds to promote the one thing these posts have so little of: brevity.

Ok, so it's nothing to do with any of the other components. On the one hand it was nice that there didn't appear to be any sort of conflict between PP and my stuff but, on the other, it was a little frustrating to not be any closer to figuring out where the problem was coming from.

So my next suspicion was: The model profile I was using in my 7PXR was pretty heavily modified on the programming side so I thought, maybe one of the parameters I'd set somewhere was messing with the transmission of the signal from Tx to Rx. I just started going page by page to see if there was something that would jump off the page at me as the possible cause (the 7PXR has a lot of pages for customization) and after a little while I figured it would be quicker to just set up a new model profile with everything reset to default. I did that and still, same problem.

Now I'm beginning to scrape the bottom of what I "know". I started to consider if the PP module I got was possibly defective but before I assume anything, I decided to compare my config to Raz's and check for differences. The only thing that really stood out was the receiver. I'm using the 334SBS and Raz is using the same one he uses in every video (at least I can't remember him ever using anything else), the R2006GS aircraft receiver. Nowhere is there any mention of Rx constraints in any of his videos and I'm really confident that Raz would have mentioned this in his videos if there were an issue with the standard issue receivers that come with Futaba transmitters. That would be a really big deal if a particular receiver was necessary for the PP module to work so I discarded the Rx as the culprit.

The only other Futaba compatible receiver I have is a 304SB. It's essentially the same thing as the 334 but without the Super Response (SR) mode. Bound that receiver and, as was to be expected, no change.

I'll leave it at that for now and see if anyone else wants to participate in the Easter egg hunt.

 

[LibertyMKiii]

You're close. But I'm going to go full Alex "Jeopardy!" Trebek on you and require correct pronunciation or

While part of me doesn't want to show you what's behind the curtain because being the Wizard of Oz makes me feel all warm and gooey inside, the larger part of me is compelled to show you what's behind the curtain because that's how we Germans do.

Rest assured when I tell you that I do not produce neat and tidy wiring...I just know how to hide it. You know that kid in grade school that had a neat room upon first inspection but a closer look reveals that one of the posts of his bed isn't actually touching the ground because all his is under there?

Yeah, neither do I but that's certainly one way of solving the parental unit room inspection dilemma. All similarities to persons living or dead is purely coincidental.

After having created so much extra real estate on my last rebuild/reconfiguration, I decided to make it a little easier on me by distributing my onboard electronics into two electronics boxes. I'm using both the V2 Infraction box that came with the car in addition to the V1 Limitless box that I had upscaled to at some point. The small box on the right contains the receiver and PP launch control module (I drilled a 2mm hole in the lid so that I could adjust PP without needing to open it every time) and the big box on the left contains the telemetry link, quick connect duo, 3-way S.BUS hub and GYC-441. One of the other small side projects I added during the overhaul was CF lids for both boxes.
View attachment 290425View attachment 290427

Getting back to the the topic of the thread...

An entirely reasonable assumption. To rule out any component conflicts, keeping with standards in practice of fault localization, I proceeded to remove everything from the electronics except the bare minimum needed to operate. Then, once a functioning system can be established, begin adding back the other components one by one until the fault you were experiencing re-surfaces at which point you have the culprit and, depending on what component was causing the problem, take appropriate action to address the fault.

ln short order I made one or two setup changes in the ESC so it wouldn't complain that the telemetry link is missing and connected only the ESC, motor, receiver, PP launch control, plugged a small 2S lipo into the receiver for power, recalibrated the ESC on power up aaaaand....same problem. Roughly 4 seconds of ramp time. I confirmed in the data log what I was seeing and hearing. The data log looked fine and showed no anomalous behavior. The ramp was a nice diagonal and everything...just too short. It was about 3.7-3.8 seconds of ramp time but we'll just call it 4 seconds to promote the one thing these posts have so little of: brevity.

Ok, so it's nothing to do with any of the other components. On the one hand it was nice that there didn't appear to be any sort of conflict between PP and my stuff but, on the other, it was a little frustrating to not be any closer to figuring out where the problem was coming from.

So my next suspicion was: The model profile I was using in my 7PXR was pretty heavily modified on the programming side so I thought, maybe one of the parameters I'd set somewhere was messing with the transmission of the signal from Tx to Rx. I just started going page by page to see if there was something that would jump off the page at me as the possible cause (the 7PXR has a lot of pages for customization) and after a little while I figured it would be quicker to just set up a new model profile with everything reset to default. I did that and still, same problem.

Now I'm beginning to scrape the bottom of what I "know". I started to consider if the PP module I got was possibly defective but before I assume anything, I decided to compare my config to Raz's and check for differences. The only thing that really stood out was the receiver. I'm using the 334SBS and Raz is using the same one he uses in every video (at least I can't remember him ever using anything else), the R2006GS aircraft receiver. Nowhere is there any mention of Rx constraints in any of his videos and I'm really confident that Raz would have mentioned this in his videos if there were an issue with the standard issue receivers that come with Futaba transmitters. That would be a really big deal if a particular receiver was necessary for the PP module to work so I discarded the Rx as the culprit.

The only other Futaba compatible receiver I have is a 304SB. It's essentially the same thing as the 334 but without the Super Response (SR) mode. Bound that receiver and, as was to be expected, no change.

I'll leave it at that for now and see if anyone else wants to participate in the Easter egg hunt.

Seems like you have gone through the process of elimination. I agree it could be the PP.
Do you have any other RC radio setups that this PP module could be tested on? (thinking of a RTR type car)
Or maybe a local hobby shop where you could test it.

All this complexity just makes my Noble NB4 seem that much better

 

[Diem Turner]

Seems like you have gone through the process of elimination. I agree it could be the PP.
Do you have any other RC radio setups that this PP module could be tested on? (thinking of a RTR type car)
Or maybe a local hobby shop where you could test it.

All this complexity just makes my Noble NB4 seem that much better

I can tell you didn't read the thread.

Everything is working just fine so we already know it wasn't the PP module. I only just today offered up why I started the thread in the first place because in the OP there's no mention of what problem I was having (or if I was having a problem at all). I was just looking for someone with this setup for a chat.

I'm just going over my findings, the how what and why and, in retrospect, I was curious if anyone has any idea what the problem was for a bit of fun back and forth to make it a little interactive while I lay out my case because it was definitely a mildly interesting process figuring out what was going on.

Yeah, I know, NB4. Got it. But I'm sticking with my Futaba gear.

 

[Dan B.]

I can tell you didn't read the thread.

Everything is working just fine so we already know it wasn't the PP module. I only just today offered up why I started the thread in the first place because in the OP there's no mention of what problem I was having (or if I was having a problem at all). I was just looking for someone with this setup for a chat.

I'm just going over my findings, the how what and why and, in retrospect, I was curious if anyone has any idea what the problem was for a bit of fun back and forth to make it a little interactive while I lay out my case because it was definitely a mildly interesting process figuring out what was going on.

Yeah, I know, NB4. Got it. But I'm sticking with my Futaba gear.

This kind of stuff drives me crazy. Now I’m gonna have to overthink everything. The things that immediately jump out to me are:

• Not playing well with others. Ruled out.
• You went astray somewhere in the 1000 setup screens on your TX. Ruled out.
• Bad pot on the launch control. Ruled out. (How?)
• Maybe a bad interface from ESC to RX to PP, albeit a bad cable, loose connection, or confusion where to plug it in amid all that spaghetti? I wouldn’t think this would affect ramp up time though, seems like it would just either work, or not.
• Too much voltage feeding the receiver and freaking out your PP!
• The range booster on your TX?

Ok, jeez. My head I’ll be a’scratchin’.
A blob of solder melted your cable on the launch control? Difficult to see in the pic.

 

[Hammer Down]

The wires are too long…..

Kidding aside, have you tried contacting Raz?