Kraton Razor RC Kraton & Outcast 4S V2 thread

[Tex Koder]

I just experienced this situation last weekend.. took the kids to the park and took our big ramp, my daughter launched her Granite and landed awful, wiped out the spur... My immediate thought was "time for and upgraded motor mount" But then I realized she had already had 100 bad landings before that when I was certain it was going to be broke, and it wasn't..same with the last 2 bashes before that, so if it costs me a $5 spur gear here and there, and a little wrenching(which I enjoy), maybe I should I just let the weakest link be a cheap one??

Yes, True.
It's only $5 part and some wrenching time..
However, that just ended the bashing session for your daughter...

You're not going to let a busted cheap part spoil/Take-Away your child's Fun time -on the weekend with Daddy- ,are you..?

 

[DLK83]

Lol, nope, that's why the tackle box now has 4 spares!

 

[Gedrick]

I agree with you 100% and I still got suckered into buying the kraton 4s lol. Feelsbad!!

Ah man, I hate hearing of folks unhappy with any RC purchases, but it does make me wonder what folks are doing with these cars. I just sent mine probably 45 times off my ramp yesterday (10-15 feet in the air, back/front flips, landing on flat dead grass), had some questionable landings, thing's running great. Had a ton of fun at the track the other night, got her nice and dirty, ran it hard through grass, etc. It makes me think I'm "babying" this car.

I watched a video of Aldo earlier and he broke a drive shaft though he does send em higher than most.

See this is what I mean, I love Aldo's channel but those jumps are big enough to be on a supercross track. He breaks parts on his 8s rigs, so with a bad landing, well yeah it seems like anything would break and the 4s line is obviously not as overbuilt as the 6-8s ones. This is a $460 RTR car that can withstand those jumps, I don't understand the expectations or what folks are doing to them because it seems like a miracle they can withstand a few of those hits at all.

That being said I did have to heatshrink the C-clips on the driveshafts because one did pop off after a run, but apparently that happens normally anyways, but I'm new to cars this size, so what do I know?

 

[HZRDOS]

Ah man, I hate hearing of folks unhappy with any RC purchases, but it does make me wonder what folks are doing with these cars. I just sent mine probably 45 times off my ramp yesterday (10-15 feet in the air, back/front flips, landing on flat dead grass), had some questionable landings, thing's running great. Had a ton of fun at the track the other night, got her nice and dirty, ran it hard through grass, etc. It makes me think I'm "babying" this car.


See this is what I mean, I love Aldo's channel but those jumps are big enough to be on a supercross track. He breaks parts on his 8s rigs, so with a bad landing, well yeah it seems like anything would break and the 4s line is obviously not as overbuilt as the 6-8s ones. This is a $460 RTR car that can withstand those jumps, I don't understand the expectations or what folks are doing to them because it seems like a miracle they can withstand a few of those hits at all.

That being said I did have to heatshrink the C-clips on the driveshafts because one did pop off after a run, but apparently that happens normally anyways, but I'm new to cars this size, so what do I know?

Agree with you. I have both, and love them. I have no plans to send them 20+ feet in the air, I have 2 other rigs built for that. Bought these as light, quick, dirt, grass and street bashers. They are awesome at that.
And some small rampnsend with the OC4s, I was surprised how easy it is to get some level flights. Old OC4s V1 wanted to flip all the time!

 

[Gedrick]

Agree with you. I have both, and love them. I have no plans to send them 20+ feet in the air, I have 2 other rigs built for that. Bought these as light, quick, dirt, grass and street bashers. They are awesome at that.

I'm into mountain biking too and nobody buys a $700 hardtail expecting it to perform at a bike park on par with a proper $4500 downhill bike because of course it can't do that. The understanding with RCs though seems to blow right past some people.

Also from watching countless Youtube videos, people treat the throttle like an on/off switch. Makes you wonder if people's 1:1 scale car driving transfers to their RC driving. Being from New Jersey I can attest, a ton of people drive their RC cars like people here drive their real cars

 

[razorrc]

I'm into mountain biking too and nobody buys a $700 hardtail expecting it to perform at a bike park on par with a proper $4500 downhill bike because of course it can't do that. The understanding with RCs though seems to blow right past some people.

You're right, which is why I don't compare the Kraton/Outcast 4S to more expensive 1/8 6S cars. I compare it to other 4S trucks of the same size (and price range). Namely the Sketer and Maxx, and do the same jumps and crashes as those.

In the approximately 4 years of Maxx and Sketer ownership combined, I've broken exactly zero chassis. I've broken 5 Outcast & Kraton 4S V2 chassis in the past month.

 

[Gedrick]

You're right, which is why I don't compare the Kraton/Outcast 4S to more expensive 1/8 6S cars. I compare it to other 4S trucks of the same size (and price range). Namely the Sketer and Maxx, and do the same jumps and crashes as those.

In the approximately 4 years of Maxx and Sketer ownership combined, I've broken exactly zero chassis. I've broken 5 Outcast & Kraton 4S V2 chassis in the past month.

I've seen all your videos on the 4S line (fan of your channel!) and I don't think you did anything ridiculous at all, just to be clear. In fact your first Kraton chassis breakage video you were being super mellow compared to others I'd seen. I'm more referring to the trigger happy people who are likely not even on youtube, but moreso in the comment sections/forums. You know how that goes, people don't generally complain about it running well, after-all.

And 5 chassis! Wow that is a lot. Maybe the motor mount flexing (with the floaty motor) puts too much a strain on the chassis directly under the motor? I assume that's what Tex's motor support piece is trying to prevent.

 

[KnowAir]

Also from watching countless Youtube videos, people treat the throttle like an on/off switch. Makes you wonder if people's 1:1 scale car driving transfers to their RC driving. Being from New Jersey I can attest, a ton of people drive their RC cars like people here drive their real cars

Totally agree! I call them throttle jockeys.. I see them everywhere, on the road, trails, you name it. Rc's, atvs, snowmobiles, cars.. full throttle to full brake with no control or regard for anything. Jersey? Fuhgeddaboudit!!

 

[razorrc]

I've seen all your videos on the 4S line (fan of your channel!) and I don't think you did anything ridiculous at all, just to be clear. In fact your first Kraton chassis breakage video you were being super mellow compared to others I'd seen. I'm more referring to the trigger happy people who are likely not even on youtube, but moreso in the comment sections/forums. You know how that goes, people don't generally complain about it running well, after-all.

And 5 chassis! Wow that is a lot. Maybe the motor mount flexing (with the floaty motor) puts too much a strain on the chassis directly under the motor? I assume that's what Tex's motor support piece is trying to prevent.

Thanks. It's been a combination of things, but two of the cracks were from the motor hitting the chassis, one was a horrible upside down landing on the roof (although I'm pretty sure the Maxx would've survived, and the Sketer would have probably just bent a shock tower/shock standoff), the others are the neck and shock tower breaking together.

 

[Gedrick]

two of the cracks were from the motor hitting the chassis

Ya know, on that subject, I could never understand why these cars (maybe all of them?) have a design where the motor mount is the sole contact point between the motor and the rest of the car. I'm a software engineer and not a mechanical engineer, but what's the reason for this?

Always seemed strange to me - no matter how strong that motor mount is, and how stiff the motor is, it's going to take an insane amount of force on a hand landing, and with a plastic chassis it has to flex somewhere. Then you've got a pinion/spur contact point that's going to move with everything flexing. Surprising they survive those kind of falls at all without blowing to pieces!

 

[razorrc]

Ya know, on that subject, I could never understand why these cars (maybe all of them?) have a design where the motor mount is the sole contact point between the motor and the rest of the car. I'm a software engineer and not a mechanical engineer, but what's the reason for this?

Just so you can accommodate slightly different sizes of motor (1mm here, 1mm there). They do have mounts that hold the whole motor in place, i.e. Sledge, but they have their own problems.

 

[morrjr71]

Just so you can accommodate slightly different sizes of motor (1mm here, 1mm there). They do have mounts that hold the whole motor in place, i.e. Sledge, but they have their own problems.

The Maxx also comes with a whole-motor type of mount for the stock Velineon motor, and Traxxas makes a mount for using the larger 2200kv 6s motor in the Maxx. I have the 2200kv motor in my Maxx, and I am using the larger 8960X motor mount. It's perfect.

 

[Tex Koder]

Thanks. It's been a combination of things, but two of the cracks were from the motor hitting the chassis, one was a horrible upside down landing on the roof (although I'm pretty sure the Maxx would've survived, and the Sketer would have probably just bent a shock tower/shock standoff), the others are the neck and shock tower breaking together.

Would you have some (close up) photos of these breaks/cracks?
I would like to see if I can come up with something for those other breakages..

I have something to help remedy those motor slaps.

 

[MrLimey]

Ya know, on that subject, I could never understand why these cars (maybe all of them?) have a design where the motor mount is the sole contact point between the motor and the rest of the car. I'm a software engineer and not a mechanical engineer, but what's the reason for this?

Always seemed strange to me - no matter how strong that motor mount is, and how stiff the motor is, it's going to take an insane amount of force on a hand landing, and with a plastic chassis it has to flex somewhere. Then you've got a pinion/spur contact point that's going to move with everything flexing. Surprising they survive those kind of falls at all without blowing to pieces!

My take:

Stock, the pinion spur contact should remain fairly constant with everything flexing because the power module and motor assembly in itself is much more rigid than the rest of the chassis. And it is only attached at the motor mount location

The issue is when the impact is hard enough that the chassis flexing up and power module rotating down around its attachment point result in them colliding. And then you have a sudden large force applied to the end of the motor which acts as a lever and bends the mount and messes up the gear mesh. Or the motor cracks the chassis

Fully supporting the motor from the chassis solves some problems but creates more: now any chassis flex regardless of amount is applying force to the end of the motor and bending it around the pivot point of the motor mount/ power module.

So pick your poison and try to anticipate what will work best for your driving style? I can’t see it being a huge issue for Arrma to design full motor support for the stock cans if they thought it was a magic bullet. But my guess they are weighing the two variables above and most of their consumers full motor support would create more issues than it solves.

 

[razorrc]

Would you have some (close up) photos of these breaks/cracks?
I would like to see if I can come up with something for those other breakages..

I have something to help remedy those motor slaps.

here are some

 

[Tex Koder]

here are some


View attachment 242580

View attachment 242579

Okay..

So from your observations, would you consider particular breakage-
1. An inadequate Re-enforcements in Design?
2. Failure in Material craftsmanship?
3. You pushing/going beyond the limits of the chassis?
4. A combo of the above.
5. Just bad luck?

Have you seen THIS kind of break in the previous 3S/4S V1 chassis before?

 

[slick2500]

Okay..

So from your observations, would you consider particular breakage-
1. An inadequate Re-enforcements in Design?
2. Failure in Material craftsmanship?
3. You pushing/going beyond the limits of the chassis?
4. A combo of the above.
5. Just bad luck?

Have you seen THIS kind of break in the previous 3S/4S V1 chassis before?

That's similar to how my 3s chassis broke. I have a picture somewhere I'll have to find it.


-edit-
These were the only pictures I could find.

 

[Tex Koder]

That's similar to how my 3s chassis broke. I have a picture somewhere I'll have to find it.


-edit-
These were the only pictures I could find.
View attachment 242591
View attachment 242590

Okay.
This one snapped on the rear section..

Your rigs are taking it at both ends...
You are rough!

****************************************************


And, am I seeing this correctly..?
Did you modify a rollcage onto this 3S rig & made it into a Sand Rail ?

 

[slick2500]

Okay.
This one snapped on the rear section..

Your rigs are taking it at both ends...
You are rough!

****************************************************


And, am I seeing this correctly..?
Did you modify a rollcage onto this 3S rig & made it into a Sand Rail ?

Desert Buggy.

It was even a 3s Kraton at one point in it's life.

 

[JPWSRC]

I agree with you 100% and I still got suckered into buying the kraton 4s lol. Feelsbad!!

You were warned...