Traxxas goes after the TRX4M aftermarket

[Surchaufeur]

I know I'm not the only one thinking that comment doesn't make any sense. By the second sentence, that would actually prove Traxxas DOES "hate " (I'm NOT saying they 'hate'...I'm only using that word because Surchaufeur used it) the RC community. Content creators & small businesses (such as those Traxxas recently went after) HELP the industry as a whole, and HELP to boost sales of the primary manufacturer's products. Without the aftermarket industry, the primary vehicle manufacturers probably wouldn't sell as many RTRs. I'll use one of Big 'T's own vehicles as a perfect example - the Sledge. I wanted a vehicle of this type/size, but I really wasn't interested in the Arrma Kraton or Redcat Machete...but, if "push came to shove", and there hadn't been aftermarket upgrades for the Sledge, I would have ended up purchasing one of those other vehicles. Thanks-be to the aftermarket industry, and the small businesses, who developed/manufactured upgrade parts for the Sledge. Except for certain stock parts (especially the chassis & shock towers), I truly believe that the Sledge is the better vehicle among these three...but, without a much better chassis, and much better shock towers, Big 'T' would have lost that sale...and, I know I'm not the only one, as Big 'T' has sold more Sledge units thanks to the aftermarket than they would ave ever sold had those aftermarket parts been prevented from being sold. The same holds true for the TRX4...and, in all likelihood, for the TRX4m.

Instead of trying to put these businesses "out of business", Big 'T' should be THANKING them for helping them sell as many TRX4m units as they have sold. While I have no facts/figures to "back up" what I'm about to say (ie. it's an 'assumption'), I'd almost be willing to bet that the sale of TRX4m units has greatly increased since aftermarket parts became available, as this is exactly what happened with the Axial SCX24. Axial SCX24 sales were 'decent' before aftermarket parts became available...but, sales started increasing once aftermarket parts started becoming available (this comes from the owners of two RC shops). Between a 'stock' TRX4m, and the ability to have an 'upgraded' SCX24, I'm also willing to bet that more would prefer the upgraded SCX24. Now, looking at the possibilities of both vehicles being able to be upgraded, but the Big 'T' version only being able to have upgrade parts made by Big 'T'...once again...I'm willing to bet that more people would prefer the SCX24 over the TRX4m. By eliminating the aftermarket, they will, in all likelihood, be eliminating sales of their own vehicle.

Less competition equals more money in therory for them. That mentality went on also when trying to delete competition by legal means in the pass

I know I'm not the only one thinking that comment doesn't make any sense. By the second sentence, that would actually prove Traxxas DOES "hate " (I'm NOT saying they 'hate'...I'm only using that word because Surchaufeur used it) the RC community. Content creators & small businesses (such as those Traxxas recently went after) HELP the industry as a whole, and HELP to boost sales of the primary manufacturer's products. Without the aftermarket industry, the primary vehicle manufacturers probably wouldn't sell as many RTRs. I'll use one of Big 'T's own vehicles as a perfect example - the Sledge. I wanted a vehicle of this type/size, but I really wasn't interested in the Arrma Kraton or Redcat Machete...but, if "push came to shove", and there hadn't been aftermarket upgrades for the Sledge, I would have ended up purchasing one of those other vehicles. Thanks-be to the aftermarket industry, and the small businesses, who developed/manufactured upgrade parts for the Sledge. Except for certain stock parts (especially the chassis & shock towers), I truly believe that the Sledge is the better vehicle among these three...but, without a much better chassis, and much better shock towers, Big 'T' would have lost that sale...and, I know I'm not the only one, as Big 'T' has sold more Sledge units thanks to the aftermarket than they would ave ever sold had those aftermarket parts been prevented from being sold. The same holds true for the TRX4...and, in all likelihood, for the TRX4m.

Instead of trying to put these businesses "out of business", Big 'T' should be THANKING them for helping them sell as many TRX4m units as they have sold. While I have no facts/figures to "back up" what I'm about to say (ie. it's an 'assumption'), I'd almost be willing to bet that the sale of TRX4m units has greatly increased since aftermarket parts became available, as this is exactly what happened with the Axial SCX24. Axial SCX24 sales were 'decent' before aftermarket parts became available...but, sales started increasing once aftermarket parts started becoming available (this comes from the owners of two RC shops). Between a 'stock' TRX4m, and the ability to have an 'upgraded' SCX24, I'm also willing to bet that more would prefer the upgraded SCX24. Now, looking at the possibilities of both vehicles being able to be upgraded, but the Big 'T' version only being able to have upgrade parts made by Big 'T'...once again...I'm willing to bet that more people would prefer the SCX24 over the TRX4m. By eliminating the aftermarket, they will, in all likelihood, be eliminating sales of their own vehicle.

Made a typo traxxas hates the rc community.

 

[atomos319]

+1.
When Trx wants a license and approaches Dod/Chrysler for a lexan body product for their Trx lineup, Dodge would tell them to go screw or charge TRX $300.00 per Lexan body created, if they were sued prior. Also, Dodge/Chry. has a much better legal team.


Injora made a good name for themselves with the Crawler crowd no doubt. Their stuff vastly improved over the years. Have much of their stuff on my crawlers.
TRX is headed by a P***y. Thinks his Poop don't stink. But Trx is very politically connected in Tx. Plays golf with The state judges there. True.
Edited.

What these manufacturers should consider doing is suing in federal court for tortious interference based on diversity jurisdiction. Let TRX counterclaim, defeat them, win, repeat. No worries about elected state judges that way.

 

[Moonstonemike]

Maybe someone can explain something for me.

Why is it that Trax can stop people from using their name in parts made to fit that make, But I can buy aftermarket replacement parts from dozens of companies for my full size car and they aren't getting sued by the Manufacturer? Hopefully Tra doesn't give them ideas.

 

[Tex Koder]

Maybe someone can explain something for me.

Why is it that Trax can stop people from using their name in parts made to fit that make, But I can buy aftermarket replacement parts from dozens of companies for my full size car and they aren't getting sued by the Manufacturer? Hopefully Tra doesn't give them ideas.

Because many of the "aftermarket parts companies" ARE the actual suppliers to the those 1:1 Manufacturers.
Think about how Many parts goes into a real car vs a RC toy?

Also, consider the time and Expense -a manufacturer (let's use BMW as an example) would be paying -for hundreds to thousands of law firms to chase down every producer/supplier that made a part (say leather steering wheel, shifter knob or cup holders) and used their "BMW" name in the description for said parts...
Is it really worth it for them? Just to protect their 'imagine' in those situations?

 

[atomos319]

Maybe someone can explain something for me.

Why is it that Trax can stop people from using their name in parts made to fit that make, But I can buy aftermarket replacement parts from dozens of companies for my full size car and they aren't getting sued by the Manufacturer? Hopefully Tra doesn't give them ideas.

Because the law allows them to do so, so long as they don't do anything to make people think it an OEM part.

Traxxas' copyright claims in this instance are legally specious and I doubt they would sue anyone I understand to be targeted unless they thought they could use the cost of litigation to shut someone down. I for one would likely respond to such a suit with an immediate motion for summary judgment while pressing a claim for tortious interference.

 

[Surchaufeur]

What these manufacturers should consider doing is suing in federal court for tortious interference based on diversity jurisdiction. Let TRX counterclaim, defeat them, win, repeat. No worries about elected state judges that way.

Issues is lawyers. All traxxas has to do is wait and keep the lawsuit moving while the defendant destroys itself for paying lawyers per the hour. Traxxas can afford it the little guy cannot

 

[atomos319]

Issues is lawyers. All traxxas has to do is wait and keep the lawsuit moving while the defendant destroys itself for paying lawyers per the hour. Traxxas can afford it the little guy cannot

That is why you hire a lawyer on a contingency fee basis for the tortious interference claim. I do this sort of work all the time on the the employment law world (I am a lawyer and I happen to be admitted to the federal court Traxxas would be covered by)

 

[Surchaufeur]

That is why you hire a lawyer on a contingency fee basis for the tortious interference claim. I do this sort of work all the time on the the employment law world (I am a lawyer and I happen to be admitted to the federal court Traxxas would be covered by)

The risk is just way too high for a lot of little businesses even big ones. Arrma was pretty avg when they got sued, it was the nail in the coffin for them and hobbico when it happened.they could very well right now go fight the patent And have the right to sell the nero once again. But they didn’t and won’t unfortunately. People would love to see arrma and other brands/businesses go to war fight for the RC community, but they won’t. people just don’t have balls anymore. If everyone decided to stand up and stop being exploited and bullied by a big company, that company would have stopped a long time ago or would have went into an economical crisis. But they know what They are doing makes them money and keeps them on top

 

[King blitz]

I had a thought, yes it did hurt.

Traxxas trolled all the small guys. We think the best we can do is get the word out and not support Traxxas; however, there is something more. We can troll them. They Traxxas 4M is a licensed body from Ford Motor Company. Perhaps FMC would like to know about the despicable behavior hard line attitude that Traxxas has has taken to curb the free market.

Unfortunately, they don't have an email contact but they do have a snail mail address and social media contacts. I would suggest we all start tagging FMC on the posts and even write actual letters to FMC. If they get enough bad press for doing business with Traxxas, FMC may push back on they. i.e. "I'm telling Mom".

Let's start bye tagging everything you can even if it's been tagged already by someone else and just ask the question, does FMC condone this business practice? It reflects poorly on their brand as well.

The contact is below. Let's get this battle started!​

https://www.ford.com/help/contact/​

I don't think a battle is going to do anything .in a few weeks this will all blow over and Traxxas will continue to do what they want..people will still buy there RC's..plenty of people don't know what's going on and they will still buy .they are a big company and this won't even hurt them .it's not my battle and I personally don't buy Traxxas RC'S anymore or ever will so I'm all set .I'll continue to support other brands .. especially Arrma .

 

[atomos319]

The risk is just way too high for a lot of little businesses even big ones. Arrma was pretty avg when they got sued, it was the nail in the coffin for them and hobbico when it happened.they could very well right now go fight the patent And have the right to sell the nero once again. But they didn’t and won’t unfortunately. People would love to see arrma and other brands/businesses go to war fight for the RC community, but they won’t. people just don’t have balls anymore. If everyone decided to stand up and stop being exploited and bullied by a big company, that company would have stopped a long time ago or would have went into an economical crisis. But they know what They are doing makes them money and keeps them on top

You are thinking about it the wrong way. Just because Traxxas once brought a strong claim against hobbico and won doesn't mean that every claim they threaten to assert is viable.

I am not licensed in Texas or likely in any of the states that these manufacturers are located in. Therefore, I am not and cannot give legal advice for any specific jurisdiction other than my own. Further, this post is not legal advice and by writing it, I am not giving legal advice.

That said, in Ohio I believe that Traxxas' actions expose it to liability for tortious interference at the very least. When someone sends and cease and desist letter to a third party in order to harm the business of another, without privilege, or in this case, with a viable legal argument of copyright infringement, It can result in such liability. For example, when an employer sends a cease and desist letter for an unenforceable or legally flawed non-compete to the employer of a former employee, which results in that employee being fired (the harm), that employee has a interference claim against employer who sent the letter. This is really not much different.

You would want to consult with an attorney in your jurisdiction, but I do not think that Traxxas has a viable copyright claim against anybody merely for identifying their own parts as being for use with or compatible with certain Traxxas models, or for using the word Traxxas or certain model names in those descriptions. I would need to know more about Traxxas' allegations for each manufacturer, but I do not think there is such a "risk" here for anyone who decides to fight back.

 

[Surchaufeur]

You are thinking about it the wrong way. Just because Traxxas once brought a strong claim against hobbico and won doesn't mean that every claim they threaten to assert is viable.

I am not licensed in Texas or likely in any of the states that these manufacturers are located in. Therefore, I am not and cannot give legal advice for any specific jurisdiction other than my own. Further, this post is not legal advice and by writing it, I am not giving legal advice.

That said, in Ohio I believe that Traxxas' actions expose it to liability for tortious interference at the very least. When someone sends and cease and desist letter to a third party in order to harm the business of another, without privilege, or in this case, with a viable legal argument of copyright infringement, It can result in such liability. For example, when an employer sends a cease and desist letter for an unenforceable or legally flawed non-compete to the employer of a former employee, which results in that employee being fired (the harm), that employee has a interference claim against employer who sent the letter. This is really not much different.

You would want to consult with an attorney in your jurisdiction, but I do not think that Traxxas has a viable copyright claim against anybody merely for identifying their own parts as being for use with or compatible with certain Traxxas models, or for using the word Traxxas or certain model names in those descriptions. I would need to know more about Traxxas' allegations for each manufacturer, but I do not think there isich "risk" here for anyone who decides to fight back.

They didnt win, they apparently never won its just the costs that ate the defendants

 

[atomos319]

They didnt win, they apparently never won its just the costs that ate the defendantsT

Sounds like a win to me

 

[Surchaufeur]

Sounds like a win to me

They techbicly did. They got what they wanted everytime

 

[Hector_Fisher]

Because the law allows them to do so, so long as they don't do anything to make people think it an OEM part.

Traxxas' copyright claims in this instance are legally specious and I doubt they would sue anyone I understand to be targeted unless they thought they could use the cost of litigation to shut someone down. I for one would likely respond to such a suit with an immediate motion for summary judgment while pressing a claim for tortious interference.

Does anyone know what the actual claim TRA made is? Copyright infringement? Substantial similarity? Trademark usage? Are they legally not allowed to use any of the traxxas names?

It doesn't necessarily take a valid claim of wrong to get things shut down, just the right person in the right place to see your case the same way you do (or perceive only from your perspective) and start putting up road blocks and slow downs. That's enough to hamper these smaller businesses outright.

None of the stuff I see that's happened here is anything substantial. Getting sites taken down is more of a power move and TRA showing it can throw its weight around than actual legal implications. And the simple fact that none of these businesses (that i can tell) received cease and desist letters before they were shut down is pretty eye opening. Appropriately, TRA would have normally sent a cease and desist, stating specific issues and violations relevant to each company, and giving time to comply. This is the US, not the wild west after all.

 

[Jerold]

Maybe someone can explain something for me.

Why is it that Trax can stop people from using their name in parts made to fit that make, But I can buy aftermarket replacement parts from dozens of companies for my full size car and they aren't getting sued by the Manufacturer? Hopefully Tra doesn't give them ideas.

Because I can't buy and aftermarket turbo for my Prius from Toyota. Although if someone else does, I install it then go ripping around the race track Toyota still gets free advertising and will never pays a warranty claim because I modified the vehicle. It's a win win for Toyota.

But this may be a matter of wording. (I'm NOT a lawyer).

The name Traxxas is trademarked (specifically 3205399 called out) and shouldn't prevent you from using that name nor saying that name. What it does (again not a lawyer) is protect the bearer from misuse, misrepresentation or confusion of the name.

1. Any person . . . uses in commerce any word, term, name, symbol, or device, or any combination thereof, or any false designation of origin, false or misleading description of fact, or false or misleading representation of fact, which
   1. is likely to cause confusion, or to cause mistake, or to deceive as to the affiliation, connection, or association of such person with another person, or
   2. in commercial advertising or promotion, misrepresents the nature, characteristics, qualities, or geographic origin of his or her or another person’s goods, services, or commercial activities.

15 U.S.C. § 1125(a)

In the case of Jenny's RC they are selling legit Traxxas parts by kit breaking. I don't think that is any sort of infringement, at least no more than Ebay or Craig's list. They are technically "used parts" which might be the issue, I dunno?

With the others perhaps they implied these were Traxxas branded parts, which they are not and we all know that. But it could be confusing to someone that is stupid. This might be a case of wording like "Parts for Traxxas vehicles", "Compatible with Traxxas..." or "Fits Traxxas ..." Which is typically what I see if I buy after market parts.

An example from the Jegs Catalogue:

It's clearly labeled as a Rhodes Race Cars product and it "fits" Subaru, which is Trademarked.

 

[King blitz]

Traxxas hates the rc community. They are the only brand who went after content creators and small bussinesses

Isn't the RC community "us". ? We the customer? So why would Traxxas hate who they produce products for? Without customers they can't make money.

 

[Surchaufeur]

Isn't the RC community "us". ? We the customer? So why would Traxxas hate who they produce products for? Without customers they can't make money.

You think apple cares about their costumers when they keep making their products anti repair on purpose?

 

[King blitz]

You think apple cares about their costumers when they keep making their products anti repair on purpose?

I don't know about apple and I can't tell ya how they feel about customers..but I was referring to your statement "Traxxas hates the rc community" I'm sure they don't hate there customers.i think you were referring to the small businesses.and not actually us the customer.. because without us there is no point in designing and manufacturing RC'S and parts for us..customers are what drives a company.

 

[Surchaufeur]

I don't know about apple and I can't tell ya how they feel about customers..but I was referring to your statement "Traxxas hates the rc community" I'm sure they don't hate there customers.i think you were referring to the small businesses.and not actually us the customer.. because without us there is no point in designing and manufacturing RC'S and parts for us..customers are what drives a company.

They overcharge everything they sell
Majority of people still buy traxxas because thats all they know. No matter what thry think its the best RTR rcs they can get because of how much advertisement they do. Cant really blame those people because right now there isnt really a lot of brands worth going for. So why would these people change to get something different?

 

[BashingBrian]

In my opinion, at the end of the day it's just dirty tactics to just get a whole website taken down..!!
Traxxass should have contacted said business owners and told them to remove said product..
They are just being the RC bullys that they always seem to be, some of those business's have to support their families from their websites and now they have lost their entire income...