Gun owners talk to me about Red Dot (hobby question only)

[Dan B.]

I used to use a Crimson Trace green-dot mounted under the barrel on my Beretta .45 PX4 (full size) and liked it, especially for low light conditions. I would never mount an actual RDS to a pistol, though. Too easy to get them whacked off center, especially if you’re carrying. Too bulky as well. And totally unnecessary IMO. Like others have said, there’s no substitute for practice and iron sights don’t go bad, need batteries, or fail. I don’t even use the green-dot anymore, just my naked Beretta with Tritium iron sights. I can throw pretty impressive groups with that pistol.

 

[parcou]

Thx Fam!!

All great feedback and I will keep it as it is and not add it to the gun. Practice is the keyword, and learning the use the iron sites better. Really good feedback, and some of you have some collections there, very nice!

 

[Doom!]

I have an internal laser on my Springfield XD40. When I first started using it , it showed me every little wobble as it danced around until I got used to it. It will take a little bit to get used to it, but there is something comforting knowing that a hole will appear where that red dot is. I know iron sights do the same thing but it's more psychological.

 

[ArrmaFreek2022]

Fam

I usually do not go off-topic, but I need more input here. First, I am not gov, military, police, or anything like that, although I wish I had to honor to have served like some of you. I am 50+ years live in TN. I know the South has a softer response to guns. I have been a licensed to carry gun owner since 1997. I do not own many guns, only two: Sig Sauer P365 9mm and Sig Sauer P365 .380. All I need and ever want. I do practice range shooting at 5-7ft only, no long distance. I feel 3-5ft ideal real-world range for me. I shot fairly well in that range. I'm not trying to get a flaming discussion on guns, opinions on US and guns, or anything like that. Just on Red Dot accessory!

OK... my carry gun is the P365 380. Please, no back/forth over 380 vs 9mm for carrying YT has that cover. The gun I am comfortable with and able to shoot well (it has little recoil), and I hit targets better with it much better groupings, is the one I will carry. "Red Dot" just want to get thoughts around I am thinking about adding one...not sure:

My questions or concerns are:

• It seems to be positive with Red Dot natural for the mind to find a dot when on a range target. How long would it take to get used to the transition?
• Glow or iron sights used for years, I can find those. I will admit shooting at 7ft with older eyes and targets can challenge me. Seems I can use both eyes with a Red Dot. Is that correct vs. iron sights my strongest eye aligns with the range target?
• Is learning how to find the dot hard? From a ready position, not hunting around for the dot harder
• The bigger question might be is Red Dot is needed in the 3-5ft range. Sure, the dot would be better on a range target but would I ever find the dot vs iron sights?

Mods, if I am out of order on this question, please delete it and forgive me. My question is only to gun owners and Red Dot and not about harm, premediate, or doing any form of injury to anyone...speaking to range targets. Many collect arms as a hobby, like RC, so for those who can share knowledge with me, please do.

Please keep it on Sights and Red Dot only.

Thx

IMO red dots are a much faster target acquisition tool than sights. I'm getting to an age where my eyesight is not what it used to be. Two things I found a benefit is a possible night situation, even when using Trijicon sights its a bit slower for me anyway. You can get use to it very fast and as someone mentioned easier than the sights in that you can just point and shoot, no need to close an eye. I like to put the red dot in middle of the target at 25 yards, you can practice 10 and 15 yards to get an idea of where to aim at that range. 3-5 feet I would expect it to be more of a point and shoot I would not expect to use irons at that range, you should have enough practice in to put a round on target fairly quickly at that range.

One thing for me is not all dots are clear cause i have a stigma so quality matters. I've owned the Trijicon dot and its awesome. Built a Rollin special one time with it, Wow what a nice rig.

Thats a bad a$$ little firearm btw, what site are you thinking about?

 

[morrjr71]

One thing for me is not all dots are clear cause i have a stigma so quality matters. I've owned the Trijicon dot and its awesome. Built a Rollin special one time with it, Wow what a nice rig.

I have astigmatism too, and often the red dot looks more like an egg than a circle. But I can still put the round where it needs to be.

Speaking of Trijicon, I have an ACOG on my AR with the triangle for point of impact rather than a round dot. The triangle works well with my astigmatism.

 

[Dan B.]

Thx Fam!!

All great feedback and I will keep it as it is and not add it to the gun. Practice is the keyword, and learning the use the iron sites better. Really good feedback, and some of you have some collections there, very nice!

It always surprises me how many are so open to sharing those collections. I kind of keep mine close to the chest. Can’t have too many well armed liberals…

 

[parcou]

It always surprises me how many are so open to sharing those collections. I kind of keep mine close to the chest. Can’t have too many well armed liberals…

Feel ya. I am in a state with open carry and when it comes to that, the element of surprise is better than letting those know you have something on your hip. I know my example was different but I like the idea of keeping whatever is close to chest.

 

[Ron Burgandy]

I give zero fuks
I’ve been blowing chit up on the internets for years ….
Literally!!!
And legally…..
One might be surprised at who really wants what’s close to your chest .

 

[Jerold]

Just my 2 cent here.

I'm in California and just saying "gun" in public is a misdemeanor so I can appreciate your delicate approach. Also I completely agree that 5-7 yards is the distance to focus on for a defensive situation. This is are reasonable distance that you might have to react quickly to. The length of your hallway, a gas station, etc.. Practicing longer distances has advantages because you might be in a commercial building or open air setting; but the line between self defense and hunting gets a little blurry as a civilian. It varies a lot by region on what is considered reasonable. In any case, targets at 15-50 yards, I would definitely need to slow down and speed becomes a liability.

Pulling the trigger faster doesn't necessarily help and you've got the right idea that getting sights on target is how you get to the first shot faster. Only shots on target count not matter the situation.

Separating carbines and pistols and only discussing pistols here. From experience, I've seen some people that have vision problems make good use of them. Also in low light situations they can be useful. The downside is your gun is larger, heavier and has something else to get caught on clothing. Many of them also require batteries which do go dead and you may also need to turn on your sight when you go out for the day. I would avoid the battery option if that's possible.

At the end of the day choosing a red dot is a personal choice. Some people like them and others (myself) do not. However, there is a definite trend towards them and not just competitive shooters using them, but now more Law Enforcement are moving to them and they do have merit outside competitions. Generally speaking (others may see it different) they will not be more accurate than an iron sight, the red dot sight not an exact alignment because there is no place to index your cheek, like on a carbine, and get the exact sight alignment every time.

The good news is that even though it's always off by just a bit, in a defensive situation pin point accuracy is not useful it's good enough. The advantage, as I see it, is they can get you on target quicker with training. Training is the key word and I mean lots of slow methodical precise training.

There are a few things that you will need to do to train yourself to be effective. First is training your eye to look for a dot instead is locating the dot. That's pretty simple and just requires repetition and understanding the new sight alignment.

The second part more important part is working with your draw to get on target quickly. This changes slightly from the traditional 5-step draw we all know and love. On Step 4 you need to center the pistol to your body, instead of indexed on the side (retention) of your body, then Step 5 bring it up to your eye level and push forwards towards the target locating the dot while in transition. This is a little different where you have an iron sight and push your front sight to the target. This is all body mechanics and muscle memory.

Best of luck and avoid the fight if possible.

 

[JoshHefnerX]

Gonna take a slightly different tack on this.

The few people I've been able to talk to that have had encounters all say the same thing. It happened so fast..

If your expectations are 5ft, you don't have time for sights and will be point shooting because you are basically at arms reach. And will probably end up grappling...

I'd suggest having a look at your home, or any place where you would be defending and see the distances you would be engaging at. Probably more like 30 ft. Fbi has raised their encounter distance that they consider knife wielders to be deadly to 21ft because that distance is considered to be quite deadly, and fast in closing speed.

That being said, no matter if you go red dot or not. Train with it. The red dots themselves are gonna be harder to conceal, and possibly harder to draw as well as more fragile. Just be sure to train. And train some more.

 

[RC-Dude]

Had the same discussion with my son about red dot. But aiming does take a bit longer.

We just decided to get more ammo and bigger drums. Reloading takes a bit longer, that's a downside.

Otherswise works pretty well for us.

 

[Jerold]

If your expectations are 5ft, you don't have time for sights and will be point shooting because you are basically at arms reach. And will probably end up grappling...

I think he said 4 yards not feet.

But I agree if there is a problem 5 ft away, the gun probably stays where it's at. Although there are plenty of CQB techniques that are effective, you always have the risk of being disarmed at that range.

 

[quiznatodd bidness]

Crimson trace for that caliber and distance. Specifically, for home defense at night. Shooting someone at further than a few feet is a certain way for you to be charged instead of the criminal. Having the gun up with a laser on their chest while you’re telling them to “back up,…” etc is excellent deterrent, though. If they cross the threshold of a few feet, moving to attack, you don’t need much of anything. Fire til it’s empty, or your life is lost.
-unless you live in Canada, then you’re just dead.

 

[Adamj804]

I bought a red dot for an AR pistol. Being color blind I was lucky to find it. I have a few laser max internal lasers on a couple of handguns and can see those fine. No jumping and accurate.

 

[parcou]

Hate all the shootings that happened recently in the US. The one in TX at the mall hurts. I'm asking about this red dot in my post...makes me think.... what citizen is ready for a person in body armor.

Thankfully a cop was there, and I assume it was a headshot that stopped him...not sure. The average citizen like myself would not be ready for a person suited like that...

Praying for those injured and deceased

 

[Jerold]

Hate all the shootings that happened recently in the US. The one in TX at the mall hurts. I'm asking about this red dot in my post...makes me think.... what citizen is ready for a person in body armor.

Thankfully a cop was there, and I assume it was a headshot that stopped him...not sure. The average citizen like myself would not be ready for a person suited like that...

Praying for those injured and deceased

It's heartbreaking on so many levels when you find that people are that detached from reality and commit such senseless and violent acts. But the reality is we don't have a gun problem, we have a stupid people problem. The fear is 100% created by the media and backed (pushed) by gun grabbers and further glorified by video games and movies.

This is interesting (www.Boston.com) because they actually admitted the real statistics and the number of deaths from these incidents is staggeringly low, like 300-400 people per year. It's still terrible violence but it's highly unlikely that any of use will ever be involved in it.

Why so many mass killings? Families, experts seek answers

Far more frequent are fatal shootings involving fewer than four people and deaths from domestic violence. And then there are the suicides, which make up more than half of the 14,000 gun deaths so far this year, according to the Gun Violence Archive, which monitors news media and police reports to compile data.​

​

Still, mass killings spark the deepest fear in most people’s hearts.​

​

“People around the country all send their kids to schools — and they worry about if they send their kid to school, are they going to get shot?” said Daniel Webster, a professor at the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Violence Solutions.​

https://www.boston.com/news/crime/2...-mass-killings-families-experts-seek-answers/

Don't let this stuff get to you. Since the media have defined and redefined terms like "mass shooting" and "assault weapon", it's become easy to make the headlines. 10 years ago a few drug lords would go at it and no one cared because it was stupid on stupid. Now those morons get included in the same group that affects innocent lives and families. I regularly see headlines about a shooting at gangster rap party in Georgia, and I'm in California. Why is this my news?

You might be surprised at what an average citizen can and has done. Bad guys are stopped all the time by an average person. It's not a headline because it doesn't pull at heart strings. The media only delivers doom and gloom because it releases endorphins or something like that, i.e. has addictive qualities.

The SWAT/CERT/etc members and some regular cops do partake in more training and working scenarios. But the reality is the average cop does their 1/2 day at the range in POST, holster their gun and hope they never have to use it. OK to be fair even the highly trained cops hope they never have to use it.

So you, the average guy, can stop a bad guy if the situation a rises. However, I hope and pray that you will never be in that situation.

 

[Streeter69]

Gonna take a slightly different tack on this.

The few people I've been able to talk to that have had encounters all say the same thing. It happened so fast..

If your expectations are 5ft, you don't have time for sights and will be point shooting because you are basically at arms reach. And will probably end up grappling...

I'd suggest having a look at your home, or any place where you would be defending and see the distances you would be engaging at. Probably more like 30 ft. Fbi has raised their encounter distance that they consider knife wielders to be deadly to 21ft because that distance is considered to be quite deadly, and fast in closing speed.

That being said, no matter if you go red dot or not. Train with it. The red dots themselves are gonna be harder to conceal, and possibly harder to draw as well as more fragile. Just be sure to train. And train some more.

I lived in Arizona when they became a open carry state. Boy the looks we used to get

 

[#ARRMArcfanboy4life]

IIRC Texas is giving teachers the ability to conceal carry in schools.

 

[Jerold]

I lived in Arizona when they became a open carry state. Boy the looks we used to get

Must have been the Californian's.